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Carver Raven 350 Review (Tube Amp)

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 269 82.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 29 8.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 17 5.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 10 3.1%

  • Total voters
    325

SimpleTheater

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At this price range, why do people bother with anything but the Benchmark?

*I'm not affiliated in any way with Benchmark
 

fpitas

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At this price range, why do people bother with anything but the Benchmark?

*I'm not affiliated in any way with Benchmark
But the horrible, sterile solid state sound!!!
 

Sokel

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Measurements aside.
I can understand that if you're near or after your seventies listening to this is a time travel.
And some people don't care to pay to hear their youth.
 

fpitas

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Measurements aside.
I can understand that if you're near or after your seventies listening to this is a time travel.
And some people don't care to pay to hear their youth.
It's pretty and all, but there are very good tube amps. This? Is not one of them.
 

Sokel

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It's pretty and all, but there are very good tube amps. This? Is not one of them.
My best friend has a variety of tube amps,some sound straight,some colored.
But to him,is a choice.The thing is not to fool people that measures right.
 

sergeauckland

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At this price range, why do people bother with anything but the Benchmark?

*I'm not affiliated in any way with Benchmark
It's a tube amp. It's supposed to sound different. It's supposed to look different. Take away either, and there's no point to it.

Back in the day, tube amplifiers tried to minimise noise and distortions, and a few managed to achieve audible transparency, albeit at some high cost, especially in the quality of the output transformers. SS amps made all of that detailed circuit design unnecessary, so the only way tube amps would still sell is to sound audibly different, i.e. higher distortion, higher output impedance (which changed the frequency response of the loudspeakers ) and steam-punk looks which appeals to those so inclined.

There's zero reason to buy a new tube amp just for HiFi.

S.
 

Blumlein 88

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I own a valve-amplifier from EAR. It must be a better designed valve-amp because I don't hear any nice warm fuzzy sound. No richness either. I only hear a folded relatively rumbling bass, less clear treble and generally a bit weak dynamics. And a tendency to mush the sound in intense and strong parts. Not that it sounds bad, but compared to my Purify class D it is kind of tired. But it cuts in a pleasant way. On the other hand my class D does not cut at all.
Your description of the EAR sound matches what I've heard from all EAR products. I don't get the reverie for them as they aren't very good sounding to me as vacuum tube components go. They have a tired quality, that is a good description of it. I'm not saying other tube products sound great of the highest fidelity, but there are better ones to be had. I feel similarly about SE tube amps. They sound so obviously colored I don't know why people like them. The output is like a caricature of the input.
 

Steve Dallas

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I also think there is greater longevity with JAN tubes. I don’t think a consumer GE 6550a is necessarily different than a JAN GE 6550a in sound, but I think you are more likely to find JAN tubes in more consistent condition due to how they were stored before surplused.

Are you saying that you think the EL34 and 6550a sound the same? Since they can be biased differently I do think there's a difference in sound. I do think there is a difference in sound depending how you bias the tubes even if you didn't change it.

I don't have a good way to test amplifiers, but am willing to measure my SFS-80 with JAN GE 6550a and JAN Sylvania 6DJ8's since any digital ADC should be more than adequate to show that it's better than this amp (if it is indeed better) at the 1 to 5W range

Not necessarily. I mean among tubes of the same type. One 12AX7 sounds the same as another in the frequency response domain.

EL84s definitely sound different than 6V6s to me, for example. But it is difficult to create a valid double blind listening test or null test, because required differences in the output circuits can sound different. And if the circuits are not optimized for each tube, one tube will have its gain structure and/or output impedance compromised at the very least.

If I still had all the stuff to do it, I would quickly build a simple class A, single-ended amplifier with both octal and noval power tube sockets and attempt a null test. Imagine what a successful null test would do to the tube sniffing musicians out there?

(I still love my tube amps, but I have also embraced digital modeling and solid state power amps.)
 

Steve Dallas

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I think you've taken the wrong lesson from this Stereophile story.

What it goes to show is that the writers of Stereophile are lunatics.

I particularly liked this bit:

"The possibility of Carver's manufacturing his modified amplifier raises some very knotty questions concerning morality and legality. Does an amplifier manufacturer who designs something from scratch, coming up with a sound unique to that product, have the exclusive right to that sound? In other words, is it dishonest or even illegal for someone to use a technique such as Carver's transfer function analysis to duplicate that "unique" sound, without having done all the usual homework involved in designing an amplifier from scratch?"

No, this does not raise any "knotty questions" around legality. There is nothing in law that would give you any intellectual property over a "sound". The only way you're running afoul of IP law is if you literally reverse engineer and directly copy the circuits.

You can legally copy most tube circuits. Most are taken right out of the RCA and Mullard receiving manuals of old. There is almost never anything patent-able in these circuits, as there is myriad prior art in the public domain and most "innovation" are obvious.

Having said that, Randall Smith of Mesa/Boogie did successfully patent the A/B switch between a tube and solid state rectifier, so I am probably wrong.
 

Steve Dallas

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He also thinks so, 1:25 in the video. :)

That entire video is entertaining in and of itself:


Edit:
He in the video recommend Sovtek 12AX7LPS in and of itself. I don't know the difference between that tube and the one you mentioned Sovtek 12AX7WA, but it's the same brand anyway.:)

IIRC, the LPS is the long plate version, which is more susceptible to microphonics. It is a good tube, but does not survive shipping as well as the others.

The W in WA, WB, and WC designates a rugged-ized tube. The A, B, and C variants have different levels of gain. They are manufactured, sorted according to gain, then stamped with a model number. Some people say the A is neutral, the B is darker, and the C is brighter. I would love to see that claim measured.
 

DSJR

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HFN also got onto the US High End bandwagon in the 80s. I might even have some of those issues somewhere.
You may find Martin Colloms wrote some of those reviews back then (or Ken Kessler, who reminds me of a coupl eof subjectivist Stereophile reviewers if not as flowery as TAS writers).
 
OP
amirm

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@amirm ... a strange question. Seeing that there are no listening impressions and this amp can actually change the sound (probably not for the better :)) is it possible to record some music played through this amp (into a dummy load) and the original and post that. A short excerpt may be all that is required.
Not many people get the chance to listen to such 'amplifier effect devices' and could be interested to hear what it does to the sound and or AB it.
As you know, capturing amplifier output is challenging. One wrong move and I can blow up my ADC due to overvoltage. Also, I am doing my best to keep my neck above water right now as far as review and everything else going on. Maybe when winter comes and there is less to do outside we could do these types of experiments. The flow of high distortion products will never stop....
 

pma

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As you know, capturing amplifier output is challenging. One wrong move and I can blow up my ADC due to overvoltage
Oh no, it is quite easy and safe. I made dozens of such tests without a single damage. Of course you have to use resistor voltage dividers or stepped attenuator to keep the right voltage span. But it is easy to do, is not it?
 

Spocko

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It would be foolish to dismiss this as a product from a designer that isn't competent. Bob Carver was the designer who took down Sterophile with his challenge mentioned in the link below.


Would anyone notice the fact that this has measurably poor performance in a DBT?
It cuts both ways - what you suggest is that one could spend $250 on a Crown amplifier and get indistinguishable sound against this $3500 product in DBT. So yes, this is why DBT is so anathema to audiophiles with more money than sense. I'm very much willing to pay more for the little conveniences and comforts of design, UI, good remote, more I/O options, room correction, tactile controls, energy efficiency, etc. and know that other than room correction, I'm paying for the little luxuries unrelated to "better" sound.
 

Ken Tajalli

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Could this amp have a faulty input section? since it is as clean as sewage from low power all the way to full power, it means power section is not to blame.
The owner can still use this amp though and have good sound!
Just but an old decent SS poweramp, and wire the speakers to that, but turn this amp on for nostalgia (and heat in winter).
 

Spocko

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At this price range, why do people bother with anything but the Benchmark?

*I'm not affiliated in any way with Benchmark
I also love that it runs soooo cool unlike traditional/heavy old school Class A/B amps that double as mini heaters.
 

lc6

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So they know just as little about IP law as they do about technology.

They desperately had to come up with something, just something, in their response to try to nit pick on Carver who proved them all wrong in their snobby and snotty equipment assessments. But despite that article's conclusions, not much has changed since its publication ~37 years ago. Read any recent SP article and it is still full of esoteric equipment makes/models along with exorbitant prices that are supposed to convey exclusivity and sublime performance.
That certainly seems to appeal to the now-loaded geezers who have been conditioned over the years to believe that circuit integration and signal processing are an anathema, and that everything should be analog and preferably built from discrete components by hand in very small quantities. The latest MoFi debacle, with its already filed lawsuit seeking national class action status, shows how misguided all these dudes are -- for years, they have been listening to clean DSD distorted by the vinyl medium and related mechanical reproduction equipment!
 

Cars-N-Cans

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Just reminds me of my brother who loves Phish concerts. Goes all the time. He built himself a set of speakers using PA drivers that sound just like being there (I.e. They sound worse than you could ever imagine. Just incredible noise). He never could wrap his head around the fact that the line arrays are for high sustained SPLs, not efficiency. He was also quite surprised at what the direct feeds they post on their live stream sound like on my system, in that it actually sounds neutral and good. That and his friends refusing to ever stop over to listen to music was enough to finally get him to start to change his mind.

I guess the owner of this amp has yet to have his “intervention.”
 

usersky

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I honestly would like to know the thinking process that leads to buying this. No judgement, just wish to understand how the things go that lead to paying such an amount of money on this kind of product. I feel that we judge it by some improper metrics. It's like I judge a vase by sinad where it was ment to hold flowers.
 
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