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Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

Rate this amplifier

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 379 95.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 2.3%

  • Total voters
    399

anmpr1

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This is my 'casual listening vintage system'. The speakers are JBL 4412s, which are basically the studio version of the L-100s which are in vogue now. Keep stuff long enough and suddenly its hip again. Maybe If I stay around long enough, I'll be hip again too. :cool:
The L100 was an iteration of the 4310/11 series. The 4412, with the titanium tweeter, was a similar but different animal. Years ago JBL discontinued the LE25 tweeter used in the 4310, 4311 and L100. The 035Ti tweeter from the 4312 (and L100T--a tall floor standing consumer loudspeaker) was JBLs recommended replacement for the LE25.

In fact, I used the 035Ti tweeters in my L100s, as the original tweeters were damaged in a move. They are not quite drop in, because the 035Ti baffle is round, whereas the LE25 is square, requiring some hacking in order for it to fit. In my estimation (FWIW) the 035Ti was a great tweeter, but brightened the L100 top end, which was not really what that loudspeaker needed.

Several years a go I replaced the 035 set with two LE25 knock-offs I bought from one of the large raw speaker supply houses, said to be made according to OEM specs. Who knows about that? However from my memory (which one can't really rely on) they sound the same in the box as the original JBL LE25. I still have the 035Ti, which I'll auction off on ebay once I'm dead.

Also, FWIW, the L100 works better with some EQ tweaking. In my room I begin a bass roll off at about 160Hz, and create a mid/high dip at 6.3 kHz (using a dbx 215 professional two band equalizer). Then cross over to a sub to reinforce the low bass, at 80Hz or so. It's kind of screw-ball, and done by ear, however those settings work pretty well in my room. The L100 are also on stands, 18 inches from the floor. That does away with the Maxell 'blown away' effect.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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The L100 was an iteration of the 4310/11 series. The 4412, with the titanium tweeter, was a similar but different animal. Years ago JBL discontinued the LE25 tweeter used in the 4310, 4311 and L100. The 035Ti tweeter from the 4312 (and L100T--a tall floor standing consumer loudspeaker) was JBLs recommended replacement for the LE25.

In fact, I used the 035Ti tweeters in my L100s, as the original tweeters were damaged in a move. They are not quite drop in, because the 035Ti baffle is round, whereas the LE25 is square, requiring some hacking in order for it to fit. In my estimation (FWIW) the 035Ti was a great tweeter, but brightened the L100 top end, which was not really what that loudspeaker needed.

Several years a go I replaced the 035 set with two LE25 knock-offs I bought from one of the large raw speaker supply houses, said to be made according to OEM specs. Who knows about that? However from my memory (which one can't really rely on) they sound the same in the box as the original JBL LE25. I still have the 035Ti, which I'll auction off on ebay once I'm dead.

Also, FWIW, the L100 works better with some EQ tweaking. In my room I begin a bass roll off at about 160Hz, and create a mid/high dip at 6.3 kHz (using a dbx 215 professional two band equalizer). Then cross over to a sub to reinforce the low bass, at 80Hz or so. It's kind of screw-ball, and done by ear, however those settings work pretty well in my room. The L100 are also on stands, 18 inches from the floor. That does away with the Maxell 'blown away' effect.
While I used the 4412s for awhile when I was composing music for films, they've long since been relegated to 3rd or 4th tier casual listening. In all honesty, I wouldn't have bought any JBL speakers except for the fact that I was an engineer there at the time and could get them for very low cost on employee discount. I just really dislike the 'JBL sound'. The sound of Altec Lansing drivers in their raw state is not all that great either but they respond much better to various tweaks, and if done right, can be outstanding - probably better than anything out there that I've heard. Altec Lansing was also a FAR nicer company to work for. JBL was kind of like Disney (worked there too) in being a toxic workplace.

I still use 18" JBL subs in modified 8cu' theater cabinets and they work fine and need little EQ in my room (6000 cu feet).
 

anmpr1

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I was an engineer there at the time and could get them for very low cost on employee discount... I just really dislike the 'JBL sound'.
I agree about the employee discount. I have two copies of MS Office Pro (2013 and 2016) I bought for about ten dollars each through the company's employee discount. I think on a good day a 'boxed' copy of MS office (with a perpetual lifetime license) is arguably worth five or ten dollars. The idea of paying ten dollars a month for a subscription is outrageous, but I guess a lot of people don't care. Whoever thought that up was a marketing genius for sure. At least with my L100s, I don't have to pay a monthly fee to JBL to use them!

As far as the JBL sound? It was like the two Steves. When I was getting into hi-fi, you could have the JBL (West Coast) sound, or the AR (Boston or East Coast) sound. To make a software company comparison, the former was like a Steve Ballmer lunatic 'monkey dance' presentation. The latter was like a 'low key' (at least in public) Steve Jobs presentation. Although I detested Ballmer, and had some respect Jobs, I had to go JBL. Sounded less like a box. I don't mind admitting it. :)
 

MakeMineVinyl

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I agree about the employee discount. I have two copies of MS Office Pro (2013 and 2016) I bought for about ten dollars each through the company's employee discount. I think on a good day a 'boxed' copy of MS office (with a perpetual lifetime license) is arguably worth five or ten dollars. The idea of paying ten dollars a month for a subscription is outrageous, but I guess a lot of people don't care. Whoever thought that up was a marketing genius for sure. At least with my L100s, I don't have to pay a monthly fee to JBL to use them!

As far as the JBL sound? It was like the two Steves. When I was getting into hi-fi, you could have the JBL (West Coast) sound, or the AR (Boston or East Coast) sound. To make a software company comparison, the former was like a Steve Ballmer lunatic 'monkey dance' presentation. The latter was like a 'low key' (at least in public) Steve Jobs presentation. Although I detested Ballmer, and had some respect Jobs, I had to go JBL. Sounded less like a box. I don't mind admitting it. :)
I had one particularly awkward moment when JBL came out with their large flagship home speaker at the time - I think it was Everest or something like that. They brought us all into the sound room for the Big Demonstration. I was aghast at how hard and brittle and forward the sound was; the JBL sound on steroids, but everybody with the exception of myself was thrilled to drink the Kool Aid. I think I was the only person who thought they sounded like shit but I just nodded my head and left the room.

Its kind of strange that the Klipsch sound is similar in its hardness and brittleness and forwardness, but somehow they have a different take on these traits. Its kind of like the harshness and brittleness is lower in frequency and at the same time higher in frequency - very hard to put my finger on. I would say that neither JBL or Klipsch sound 'musical' in the sense of sounding like the actual musical instruments they are supposed to be representing (given a good recording of course).

Not to trash on those who like the sound of these brands because there are obviously lots of them. My own goal is to have the impact, dynamics and immediacy which horns provide with the finesse and truthfulness to the sound of actual instruments of the better cone / panel speakers. Its extremely difficult to achieve and I'm constantly coming up with small tweaks to get closer to that goal.
 

egellings

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Those bright speakers may sound okay for someone with a rolled off high end in their hearing.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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Those bright speakers may sound okay for someone with a rolled off high end in their hearing.
Or their hearing might be rolled-off because they've listened to overly bright speakers all their life. :rolleyes:
 

mhardy6647

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I had one particularly awkward moment when JBL came out with their large flagship home speaker at the time - I think it was Everest or something like that. They brought us all into the sound room for the Big Demonstration. I was aghast at how hard and brittle and forward the sound was; the JBL sound on steroids, but everybody with the exception of myself was thrilled to drink the Kool Aid. I think I was the only person who thought they sounded like shit but I just nodded my head and left the room.

Its kind of strange that the Klipsch sound is similar in its hardness and brittleness and forwardness, but somehow they have a different take on these traits. Its kind of like the harshness and brittleness is lower in frequency and at the same time higher in frequency - very hard to put my finger on. I would say that neither JBL or Klipsch sound 'musical' in the sense of sounding like the actual musical instruments they are supposed to be representing (given a good recording of course).

Not to trash on those who like the sound of these brands because there are obviously lots of them. My own goal is to have the impact, dynamics and immediacy which horns provide with the finesse and truthfulness to the sound of actual instruments of the better cone / panel speakers. Its extremely difficult to achieve and I'm constantly coming up with small tweaks to get closer to that goal.
I am gonna copy the URL to this post and use it whenever the topic of the classic Klipsch and/or JBL sound comes up.
Well expressed, and (as they say) dead-nuts on. :)

Thus do we tend towards Altec at my house. :)
 

xaxxon

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Just wanted to follow up - I ended up calling the number on the website and Jim Clark answered. He wasn't super excited to take back the amp (reasonably) but gave me an address and such to send it back. Looks like they're going through a corporate rework and some things will be changing over there and I wish them the best of luck.
 

voodooless

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Looks like they're going through a corporate rework and some things will be changing over there and I wish them the best of luck.
Yeah, they are building a new exhibit to place Bob in.
 

MaxBuck

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I'm not sure I see a good reason to wish these people well. Their recent products are crap.
 

xaxxon

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I'm not sure I see a good reason to wish these people well. Their recent products are crap.
Have you ever heard this amp? I think you'd be shocked if you heard one of these amps blind and then were later told what it was. I still have one and I still think it sounds pretty good. I wasn't impressed with the build quality of the second one I bought and I do like my benchmark amps more (I have 3) but I don't think the amp is garbage. I generally enjoy it on my wilson alexia 1s and my 805d3s. It didn't have enough power for the wilsons which is why I bought two, but it doesn't sound bad. But for a $6000 pair of monoblocks (that shouldn't have had to be a pair) it was too expensive vs a single benchmark amp at half the price MSRP.

When I bought it I took the two 275s to a local mcintosh dealer and compared it against the https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/amplifiers/MC462 on a newer model of my speakers and preferred the 275s. Obviously we weren't running anywhere near the 450 watts the mcintosh could do, but in terms of sound I preferred the carvers.

I don't think calling it "crap" is a fair assessment of its audio quality. But I do agree that they are over-marketed in the spec sheet side of things.
 
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xaxxon

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If I purchased a BMW M4 expecting 473 bhp, and measurements showed engine output to be 210 bhp, I wouldn't be "wishing BMW executives well."
if they took it back no problems and were addressing things then I got no issues.
 

JP

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if they took it back no problems and were addressing things then I got no issues.

Intentionally misrepresenting a product is okay as long as the person misrepresenting it allows an individual who catches them to return it? Rinse and repeat on to the next victim.
 

xaxxon

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I decided that I was going to get a refund on my other 275 (I had bought a second one thinking I needed more than 75 watts - not knowing that they were really just grossly underpowered). First one was accepted back about 2 weeks ago.

I spoke with Jim Clark who now (to my knowledge) runs day to day at Bob Carver corp and was informed that the offer to refund purchases has expired - 3 days shy of 3 months since the offer (without any time bound on it) was made here.

I'm still waiting on the check for my first one that they received a week ago. But they are in communication regarding it, so I'm still hopeful.

edit: followup email said it ended april 1. So it was valid for.. 2 months and 10 days.
 
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SIY

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I decided that I was going to get a refund on my other 275 (I had bought a second one thinking I needed more than 75 watts - not knowing that they were really just grossly underpowered). First one was accepted back about 2 weeks ago.

I spoke with Jim Clark who now (to my knowledge) runs day to day at Bob Carver corp and was informed that the offer to refund purchases has expired - 3 days shy of 3 months since the offer (without any time bound on it) was made here.

I'm still waiting on the check for my first one that they received a week ago. But they are in communication regarding it, so I'm still hopeful.

edit: followup email said it ended april 1. So it was valid for.. 2 months and 10 days.
Small claims. Get a judgement.
 
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