He isn't duped, he's a conscious and deliberate shill. The strategy is not to convince "us" but to try to mitigate what happens when people search for the product.
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Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Depends on the meaning of "physical." Things like transformer shorts happen, and that will make the chassis (and every interconnect involved) live.
He's lying, or someone is generating these posts in his name. I am really saddened to see this.
I think how often something might occur is quite relevant-- do I have a greater chance of being struck by lightning or winning the lottery than getting shocked by this amplifier or is it just a matter of time?
There's a reason that All American Fives don't exist anymore.
No, its not a matter of time. But it could happen to your doughter every second. Why that risk? And not just follow that fu**ing safety regulations?
I am confused. You changed the gauge of the wiring inside the unit for cosmetic reasons?
So you are prepared to change the design internally for how it looks (if a customer ever opens the amplifier), but resist the notion of improving the safety of the unit for your customers?
Go watch this video in this @Francis Vaughan's post. (Hey, Francis, where have you been? Haven't seen you around for a long time
)
JayGilb
Major Contributor
You can be assured that every appliance safety law/rule put into place was the result of an accident where someone was either killed or injured.
I've been on ASR for about 6 months and every time a flaw or poor performance happens in a review, the defenders come flocking in an effort to either find flaws in the testing or defend the product. Are these people all owners of said product ? Some seem like shills for the company or maybe they're embarrassed about shelling out thousands for an unpolishable turd, I don't know, but it happens like clockwork on this site.
I couldn't imagine someone diving in front of a bullet for a microwave oven on a appliance review site, yet there seems something unhealthy about people and their need to defend their audio equipment. I can postulate many ideas for this bizarre behavior, but personally am unable to understand why, it's just a electronic device after all.
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Say you have the amp plugged in and sitting on the floor in your basement. Your basement starts to flood and there's about 1" of water on the floor, which has gotten up into the chassis of your 275 a bit and you don't have GFCI protection. That's about the worst-case scenario.
You choose your risks. I've had my hair raised (back when I had more hair) by close lightning strikes and prefer to avoid them if at all possible. Same with this amplifier. The argument that "how often matters" does not matter to me if I happen to be the one struck by that one in a million chance.
As to how, a weak solder joint could fail over time and a wire come loose, insulation could break down over time and with heat (even at room temp), a transformer could fail (seen that a number of times), you could accidentally touch the wrong things whilst changing tubes, you are holding a glass of liquid that spills into the amp as you are reaching to turn it on or off, etc. There are a myriad of ways for things to fail that are within and outside your control. I have had too many times lost friends to something that "could never happen to me". There's no 100% guarantee, but some things are not worth the risk. Each must decide for himself, natch.
SaltyCDogg
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Only the Vice President of East Coast Television and Microwave Oven Programming for General Electric Jack Donaghy.
Ironically the bullet was accidentally fired by Alec Baldwin!
Or your kids, grandkids, pets...
Larry B. Larabee
Senior Member
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The worst case scenario was established when this product was allowed to be distributed to the public with what looks like zero regulatory oversight concerning safe operation. Maybe the US allows this kind of thing where other countries won't?
We can talk about the beauty of my amp case, we can talk if tubes sound better like class d, we can talk if high second harmonics thd is good for sound. No Problem. But there is no talk about the safety of a device, thats build against safety regulations. See, no talk. There is no talk about a car with unsafe brakes with me. Get it or not, no talk.
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traderitch
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SIY,
I have no financial interest (other than owning a variant) in these amplifiers.
My intentions have been clearly stated throughout this discussion.
I take claims of catastrophic safety issues seriously.
BC has responded to the claims that there is no protection if If a high voltage wire were to touch the inside of the chassis:
"The B+ fuse will blow"
The "what ifs" are beyond the scope of the review and were not tested.
(I have never disputed the measurement results).
I appreciate the discussion about other amps that is scattered throughout this thread.
Again you are projecting such animus.
I am not sure why someone of your esteem on this site, a technical expert, must resort to name calling.
(I do find some humor in the 'likes' by the people in your responses - complicity of character)
Maybe the US does allow this kind of thing. I have been looking into the so called regulations, it seems that at a federal level, if nobody reports you to them, they do not actually "check" each design or approve it. Even if someone reports them, the regulations seem (for audio) to be more about "cheating", for example, stating power output wrong, so designed so manufacturers could keep each other in line somehow by telling on each other. There are "codes" at the local level for building houses or things like that, but I am beginning to think there are no audio "codes" at the federal level and certainly no inspections for audio gear.
Hopefully someone can shed more light on this, as I said I did some looking into this but did not see anything relevant to grounding a chassis on an audio amplifier. Bob Carver depended on a 4.7M ohm resistor (in neutral side to ground on transformer primary) and a B+ fuse for high voltage protection and as far as his -47 bias supply I think it has to be 48 and above volts to be considered high voltage in US so no protection for that supply is needed I guess.
I am in agreement that the chassis should be grounded directly to the earth, thats always been the way with me, safety first. Anything I have seen since probably the seventies that is two prong plug only has been double insulated. Three prong outlets (one prong is safety ground) have been around for a long, long time now.
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What you have to think about is how many products are made. even if the chances are one in 10,000 against. That means for every 10,000 products shipped, one becomes dangerous to touch, and someone can be killed by it.
And it doesn't matter if there are only ever 1000 of these particular amps made. The regulations apply to ALL products so that none of them become unsafe through easily mitigated faults.
Put simply - if one of these amps ever kills someone by failing to be compliant with known best practise, there is a good chance of someone going to prison.
EDITED TO ADD
Prior to retirement I was required to attend a number of product electrical safety awareness trainings. In the USA as I understand it, even where UL standards are not legally mandated, it doesn't matter. If you kill someone with your product, you will be required to show that your product met "state of the art" requirements. In other words if it is generally accepted that you protect people by earthing metal enclosures, or by providing effective double insulation, and this is what most manufacturers do (so state of the art) - then you are going to be in serious trouble if you don't.
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traderitch
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UnimpressiveSeriously, why don't you try it yourself? See what happens and report back here. (if you are still alive). Regale us with your survival...
There's been a bunch of experts here, trying (clearly in absolute vain) to explain what an absolute disaster these products are, both from a techincal and safety perspective. And you want to play silly games?
None of us are stupid enough to buy this unsafe, poorly constructed junk. You clearly were duped. Whatever. Accept it and move on.
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