Visually they don't pass my livingroom test either. For me it's wood or color. The ring is just not enough. Custom colors like Genelec offers would be nice for me. And I also find them a bit small for main speakers. Others might see this as an advantage - big sound with small unobtrusive speakers. I like looking at bigger speakers. From that perspective a bass extension module would make sense although soundwise I'm satisfied with their bass output.
Or you solve the analog part individually with a minidsp adept or pocketadc (depends on phono, or not).
Not trying to make the OP buy anything. Just pointing out some technical facts. Actually, I repeatedly suggested C8C as the technically best option of the speakers in consideration. When it comes to value and sound quality for money, I have made my point mainly based on measurements. A speaker that can compete so much higher in price level and offers such an interesting combination of features did not exist before. For me the Orbits are a milestone in active speaker category. Consequently, they make a lot of offerings look quite bad and that's why some people fight against them. I'd rather support them in bringing speaker prices down. But somehow that doesn't seem to make sense for some ASR members. Different mindset.
Yes, the Genelec and KEF have coaxial drivers with smoother directivity in their operating ranges, for the LS60 a cardioid mode would be only possible in the range where its coaxial is still operating (and since its optimised to be a 3-way this isn't too low and using it in a coaxial mode would limit its max SPL even more), Genelec has actually the W371A woofer which can enhance loudspeakers like the 8361 to a cardioid but also to other helpful bass/room coupling modes but its unfortunately not cheap:
Have some doubt that it will combine well with 8361 passive directivity. To keep directivity reasonably constant for 8361 requires effective rear-sound cancellation up to a few hundred hertz. Are there any measurements?
I think it will be easier for Palmer to smoothen treble directivity than for Genelec to add cardioid mode to coaxial speakers. In 8361 the coax plays to 320Hz and that's without additional SPL losses resulting from rear sound cancellation. Passive cardioid wouldn't work as the frequency range is too small. So Genelec would either have to re-design the coax for better low-frequency extension or do active cardioid. The Ones series eclosure shape is problematic for integration of additional speakers for active cardioid mode. Maybe 8380 would be a good basis for active cardioid. But the price will be prohibitive.
Depending on the mode it is used the W371a is crossed high up to 500 Hz(!), so it continues the directivity of the monitor in the region above.
You are comparing a 2-way and a 3-way loudspeaker there, the Palmer coaxial is crossed at 250 Hz, if you cross the KEF also that high its MD will be also significantly lower.
That would bypass the woofers completely in 8361. And indeed 8361 would required cardioid support at least up to 500Hz. Would still be interesting to see measurements.
The KEF speaker doesn't improve much above 300Hz with sub 80Hz test signal removed. So I wouldn't be confident that it matches Palmer's performance if another lower octave of the test signal is removed. Don't forget cardioid losses. To measure both above 250Hz wouldn't be a fair comparison either. Given that LS50 has low output below 80Hz, test signal start at 160Hz would surely improve things. But would it be up to 20dB?
Yes, I guess the reason they don't show them is that this mode is just one out of three and Genelec/GLM usually prefers the
Of course it doesn't as the mechanisms which create high MD (mainly high cone excursion) are still there, as said you cannot compare both just highpassed at 80 Hz.
We don't know that unfortunately and I even have my doubts there, my initial post wasn't to say the small LS50M will be similar in SPL but just that we cannot compare apples with oranges. From my feeling the Palmer still has the lead in SPL, on the other hand the directivity of the KEF is superior, everything is a compromise.
Cone excursion should be reduced with 80Hz highpass. That's a typical subwoofer crossover frequency. Basically the graphs show that even a sub can't fix MD.
No, a highpass at 80 Hz reduces excursion not enough, the excursion is four times(!) less when doubling the frequency, so at 250 Hz vs 80 Hz almost 10(!) times lower (9.766 to be accurate).
I disagree and have different priorities there, EQ cannot fix directivity issues while distortion is SPL dependent, of course I wouldn't use a loudspeaker like the LS50M for high SPL needs, even more when KEF offers also many 3-way alternatives.
Of course if someone wants high directivity down low for low money there are not many alternatives in the new ready to use product segment so the Palmer is a good choice there, just as said wish some improvements which wouldn't even increase the cost significantly for its next generation. Personally I also like old loudspeakers and DIY projects with wide baffles which show similar behaviour for also no high cost.
Yes, from Sd perspective the chances that O11 will get louder are quite obvious, the small LS50M isn't made for that.
