• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Can't we all just get along?

DMill

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
893
Likes
1,270
It seems to me Amir did a review of a Klipsch upgrade and it was confirmed that Danny could better that train wreck of a speaker through a better crossover and fixing some of that speakers resonances. I really thought Amir did a great job with that review as it was given without bias and was just straight up a class act. I’d like to give anyone, including Danny, the benefit of the doubt regarding his sincerity. Debates over subjective vs objective have existed for thousands of years on many topics. The problem with Danny’s Flat Earthers thing to me was that subjectivists were saying the earth is flat, not scientists who understood that it wasn’t. So like a lawyer he’s tried to flip the narrative. I suppose only time will tell if there is a bad review on his tweaks will show a different Danny. But for now… taken at its word… nice job Danny.
 

Somafunk

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,311
Likes
3,028
Location
Scotland
In Danny’s previous (now deleted) video he compared the measurement crowd (us lot) to flat earthers, this is rather telling as it was the Hellenistic scholars/mathematicians back in the 3rd century BC who proved the earth was round using objective scientific method, Danny’s rather misguided analogy has unfortunately turned on him and he has somewhat outed himself as a subjective opinion led flat earther who shows disdain for irrefutable objective measuring protocol.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,376
Likes
234,548
Location
Seattle Area
Would you look at that. Danny apologizes to Amir for the previous video he made. Danny will probably also remove his previous video from the web.

Unexpected but well said and done by you Danny.:)

While I appreciate the apology, I don't think he should remove his previous video. I like to address his point about EQ of speakers. In general, I am so used to being called names that it doesn't bother me. Another reviewer called me a narcist just a week ago. It is sad for the industry that people no longer think professionalism is important. This would be the reason to refrain from name calling, not because it hurts my feeling. I am used to it but it is jarring to readers/viewers.

The video sadly starts by claiming we don't listen to music. I don't know how that brings anyone here closer to his point of view. I perform more listening tests of audio products than rest of reviewers combined. But seemingly that doesn't count if the outcome is not to the liking of the manufacturer.
 

jtwrace

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
1,225
Likes
1,401
Location
Orlando, FL

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
4,752
Likes
4,633
Location
Sweden - Слава Україні
While I appreciate the apology, I don't think he should remove his previous video. I like to address his point about EQ of speakers. In general, I am so used to being called names that it doesn't bother me. Another reviewer called me a narcist just a week ago. It is sad for the industry that people no longer think professionalism is important. This would be the reason to refrain from name calling, not because it hurts my feeling. I am used to it but it is jarring to readers/viewers.

The video sadly starts by claiming we don't listen to music. I don't know how that brings anyone here closer to his point of view. I perform more listening tests of audio products than rest of reviewers combined. But seemingly that doesn't count if the outcome is not to the liking of the manufacturer.
It sounds like but great idea. Video about EQ of speakers that is. Tips on topics you can address, in addition to the fact that I suspect you will discuss changes in passive crossover filters vs EQ:
*Why EQa speakers, one should not choose speakers that are good in themselves and do not need EQ?
*What are the possibilities with EQ?
*What are the limitations, when does EQ not help?
*What are EQ friendly speakers?

"The video sadly starts by claiming we do not listen to music."
Correct. What Danny is doing is just apologizing for the nickname Moe, much more than that it is not.
I think it's like this. Danny knows very well that you listen to speakers but ignores that and claims that you do not listen plus that his way of seeing it, you have to listen to two speakers, if you want to form an idea of how, if they sound good. When evaluating speakers, then he does not understand this by listening to one, 1, speakers. He does not understand the difference between critically listening to and evaluation VS sitting comfortably in a listening chair and just enjoying music with two speakers, in stereo. For Danny, it's later to evaluate speakers.
 
Last edited:

voodooless

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
10,229
Likes
17,811
Location
Netherlands
I think that it is very naive to accept this as a sincere apology.
He clearly stated his motives for this latest response: it’s damaging to “the industry”, aka his brand and company. At least he acknowledges that we are still potentially customers. This video is pure damage control. Even so, he had a “teachable moment”, so that’s good!
 

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,753
Likes
20,784
Location
Canada
He clearly stated his motives for this latest response: it’s damaging to “the industry”, aka his brand and company. At least he acknowledges that we are still potentially customers. This video is pure damage control. Even so, he had a “teachable moment”, so that’s good!
I have my doubts and second judgements to deal with regarding Danny although I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he blows it he blows it and I am a fool but only once. :D
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
4,752
Likes
4,633
Location
Sweden - Слава Україні
He clearly stated his motives for this latest response: it’s damaging to “the industry”, aka his brand and company. At least he acknowledges that we are still potentially customers. This video is pure damage control. Even so, he had a “teachable moment”, so that’s good!
The obvious thing is that Danny seems to really dislike EQ and miniDSP. Regarding that he will not change his position, no matter what information he absorbs, or what/if he learns .. Or rather, it is Danny's wallet that who disapproves of EQ, DSP. His business idea is to sell upgrades of passive crossover filters.

By the way, I think he's nervous about it. There are many who are not interested in doing EQ on their own. Many who want old school improvements, with passive crossover upgrades. Apart from Danny's waffle about, for example, audible differences between different cables, how the sound is improved with cable lifters / risers, his changes here actually became obviously better:

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...klipsch-rp-600m-upgrade-review-speaker.35326/
 
Last edited:

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,636
Likes
2,754
While I appreciate the apology, I don't think he should remove his previous video. I like to address his point about EQ of speakers. In general, I am so used to being called names that it doesn't bother me. Another reviewer called me a narcist just a week ago. It is sad for the industry that people no longer think professionalism is important. This would be the reason to refrain from name calling, not because it hurts my feeling. I am used to it but it is jarring to readers/viewers.

The video sadly starts by claiming we don't listen to music. I don't know how that brings anyone here closer to his point of view. I perform more listening tests of audio products than rest of reviewers combined. But seemingly that doesn't count if the outcome is not to the liking of the manufacturer.
The "not listening to music" argument has an important element of misscategorization: speakers do not reproduce music, they reproduce sound. As devices, speakers are absolutely agnostic about the signal sent whereas our brains are not. We label this or that as music, not the devices we use.

On those arguments I typically respond "nor you play videogames or films, so how can you know how they respond?

Which as you know, is a bullshit argument, because it does not matter if a low frequency is a double bass, a synthesiser or an explosion.
 
Last edited:

audiofooled

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
530
Likes
588
I still don't get it why is it so hard for some people to realize that there's nothing wrong about measuring loudspeakers with as much accuracy and detail as possible. It's the right way to quantify their performance as transducers. Also the right way to identify flaws. If it can't perform well in playing test tones (the language measuring equipment understands), chances are it won't perform well playing music. But to one's ears it just may seem to.
When it comes to listening tests, much better way to identify flaws is by listening in mono. If no major flaws are identified, and your budget and wife allows it, then go ahead and buy a pair and enjoy your music like the rest of us do. Even @amirm owns a pair or two...

Oh, and there's nothing magical about stereo. It's just a bit dodgy way to take an actual performance to the comfort of your room. Take one speaker that measures good, pair it with another one, set it up properly and you're good to go. If they don't sound good to you in stereo, then usually something's wrong with your setup. Don't blame it on the cables or connectors, just check if they are tight.

If you suspect your electricity is dirty or flawed, go ahead and measure it. Don't lick it, don't taste it, don't listen to it. It operates much quicker than any of your senses. Measuring equipment at least makes you being able to see it. Or your amp for that matter. It just drives your speaker back and forth really quickly. If it measures good, it will make your good speaker sound good too...

If you still don't get the point, here's what an inch used to be: https://www.britannica.com/science/inch
So, thankfully, since 1959 we can all come to terms how long an inch really is. Sometime in the future I hope, we can also all come to terms what a good loudspeaker is. Just don't wait 'till 2059.
 

tomtoo

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
3,607
Likes
4,514
Location
Germany
I still don't get it why is it so hard for some people to realize that there's nothing wrong about measuring loudspeakers with as much accuracy and detail as possible. It's the right way to quantify their performance as transducers. Also the right way to identify flaws. If it can't perform well in playing test tones (the language measuring equipment understands), chances are it won't perform well playing music. But to one's ears it just may seem to.
When it comes to listening tests, much better way to identify flaws is by listening in mono. If no major flaws are identified, and your budget and wife allows it, then go ahead and buy a pair and enjoy your music like the rest of us do. Even @amirm owns a pair or two...

Oh, and there's nothing magical about stereo. It's just a bit dodgy way to take an actual performance to the comfort of your room. Take one speaker that measures good, pair it with another one, set it up properly and you're good to go. If they don't sound good to you in stereo, then usually something's wrong with your setup. Don't blame it on the cables or connectors, just check if they are tight.

If you suspect your electricity is dirty or flawed, go ahead and measure it. Don't lick it, don't taste it, don't listen to it. It operates much quicker than any of your senses. Measuring equipment at least makes you being able to see it. Or your amp for that matter. It just drives your speaker back and forth really quickly. If it measures good, it will make your good speaker sound good too...

If you still don't get the point, here's what an inch used to be: https://www.britannica.com/science/inch
So, thankfully, since 1959 we can all come to terms how long an inch really is. Sometime in the future I hope, we can also all come to terms what a good loudspeaker is. Just don't wait 'till 2059.

In 2059 we have maybe a fusion reactor that produces some watts more than it consumes, maybe man landet on mars. But iam sure that we not have a definition whats a good speaker. ;)
 

tomtoo

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
3,607
Likes
4,514
Location
Germany
I still don't get it why is it so hard for some people to realize that there's nothing wrong about measuring loudspeakers with as much accuracy and detail as possible. It's the right way to quantify their performance as transducers. Also the right way to identify flaws. If it can't perform well in playing test tones (the language measuring equipment understands), chances are it won't perform well playing music. But to one's ears it just may seem to.
When it comes to listening tests, much better way to identify flaws is by listening in mono. If no major flaws are identified, and your budget and wife allows it, then go ahead and buy a pair and enjoy your music like the rest of us do. Even @amirm owns a pair or two...

Oh, and there's nothing magical about stereo. It's just a bit dodgy way to take an actual performance to the comfort of your room. Take one speaker that measures good, pair it with another one, set it up properly and you're good to go. If they don't sound good to you in stereo, then usually something's wrong with your setup. Don't blame it on the cables or connectors, just check if they are tight.

If you suspect your electricity is dirty or flawed, go ahead and measure it. Don't lick it, don't taste it, don't listen to it. It operates much quicker than any of your senses. Measuring equipment at least makes you being able to see it. Or your amp for that matter. It just drives your speaker back and forth really quickly. If it measures good, it will make your good speaker sound good too...

If you still don't get the point, here's what an inch used to be: https://www.britannica.com/science/inch
So, thankfully, since 1959 we can all come to terms how long an inch really is. Sometime in the future I hope, we can also all come to terms what a good loudspeaker is. Just don't wait 'till 2059.

This was a funny read.
"...Since 1959 the inch has been defined officially as 2.54 cm..."

Let the others have the problems to define the cm. :)
 
Top Bottom