Can't decide between Neumann kh150 and kh310, help needed

[prof__weismann]

Hi everyone, I am considering upgrade my genelec, but feeling difficult to decided between kh150 and 310s, hoping anyone here could give me some help.
For now I am using two genelec 8030s with RME ADI-2 DAC and a dynaudio 9s subwoofer. I use this set up for both listening and creation. I work on basically every step in a music production workflow, while emphasizing on sound design and mixing. Here's some images of my room:

and a cad drawing with room size (in millimeters)

I know that the acoustic env is terrible but I'm not able to change the room for now :-(
I manually did a room calibration using a minidsp mesurement mic with the 5-band parametric eq came from the rme dac. The calibration curve is like this

and the calibrated room response looks like this

I added some more bass on purpose cause this make me feel better when enjoying music from others, while when mixing and mastering for my own i decay bass of 2db on rme dac, then the bass side of the curve does not tilt up. The response curve seems okay but I am not sure how to evaluate the phase curve, i would appreciate if anyone could help to comment on.

I just considered upgrade my speakers to neumann kh 150, the dsp calibration is charming, which is believed to be much much better than my manual work. However I then found the 8-inch kh310s are also not unreachable, which seems to much more powerful than 150s. In my country a pair of kh310s are listed at 3840 usd, while two 150s + ma-1 kit are 3520 usd, tax & ship incl. These are regular prices, not some time limited offer. This is weird cause it seems the price difference is larger in websites selling them in u.s. or europe. This makes kh310s more tempting. However, in the kh150 discussion thread I found someone claiming they can not hear difference between 310s and 150s. Is this common for most people?

So here comes the actual question: does neumann dsp calibration really improves a lot for my setup, compared to the manual para eq? Or does the power of 310 just overwhelm the 150s even only with the manual eq?

Another issue is that I want to continue using the dynaudio subwoofer with the neumann speakers. I have an antelope zen go with dsp inside and it outputs both analog and digital audio, with which I can output digital siginal for kh150s, do its own calibration, and output analog signal to the lfe input of the sub, with a low-pass eq that only leave the low-end that 150s lacks. does this solution make any sense ?

Thank a lot for your reply !

 

[Waxx]

KH150 is for nearfiel, while they KH310 is better at a certain distance and would be better when paired with a sub. So what fit's you should be determined by that.

 

[JustCoolin‘]

KH150 is for nearfiel, while they KH310 is better at a certain distance and would be better when paired with a sub. So what fit's you should be determined by that.

Sorry, that‘s not quite true. Both the kh150 and the 310 have the exactly identical recommended listening distance between 1,0 and 2,5 m, according to Neumann’s spec sheets.

 

[prof__weismann]

Sorry, that‘s not quite true. Both the kh150 and the 310 have the exactly identical recommended listening distance between 1,0 and 2,5 m, according to Neumann’s spec sheets.

Yes, I agree with you. I've went through the manuals of both and they write what you said, so this is why I can't decide. By the way my actual listening distance is approx. 1.2~1.3 m.

 

[JustCoolin‘]

Yes, I agree with you. I've went through the manuals of both and they write what you said, so this is why I can't decide. By the way my actual listening distance is approx. 1.2~1.3 m.

I am in absolutely no position to help you with your question, only that I had similar thoughts and decided for the kh150, which I bought just Saturday. I was too hesitant to buy the 310 because I expect Neumann to upgrade the entire range, so it would be wiser and wait to either buy a future mark 2, or the “old” one at a reduced price.

Since I did not *want* to wait, I got the 150, which is probably more speaker than I ever need. I am just a music lover though, no trained listener.

 

[rdo]

I think that Kh150 with the automatic calibration, should give you much more correct sound for your work (especially in a room like yours)

 

[dfuller]

Okay given your room I think I'd stick with your current speakers and spend that money on actual room treatment. That foam isn't doing much of anything.

 

[Nana7miMyWaifu]

I'm using KH150 at the listening distance of approx 1 meters, and think it's ok, not too close.
The desk reflection may be a problem but you can simply use eq to deal with it.
For you room I think I will choose KH150 with a multichannel dac(or a multichannel interface with s/pdif output),plus 2 (or 4) subwoofers, and dirac live bass control.

 

[Mario Sanchez]

The desk reflection may be a problem but you can simply use eq to deal with it.

Or you can get a mesh desktop! It's probably better this way, as desktop reflections, especially if you're listening at a close-ish distance, might have a variable effect on the response, depending on where you are in relation to the speaker. Needless to say, compensating for this moving response shift with a single EQ profile would be a hit-and-miss affair.

 

[Nana7miMyWaifu]

Or you can get a mesh desktop! It's probably better this way, as desktop reflections, especially if you're listening at a close-ish distance, might have a variable effect on the response, depending on where you are in relation to the speaker. Needless to say, compensating for this moving response shift with a single EQ profile would be a hit-and-miss affair.

Yes! I'm currently using a mesh desktop. That's really a improvement in both sound and measurement. It can't hold too much weight so I have to use a standfloor bracket for my monitor, but worth it.

 

[sam_adams]

 

[Pearljam5000]

KH310
Extra driver and amp
Also woofer is bigger

 

[J-B]

I'd 100% go for the KH 150. MA-1 correction is really good.

I also owned KH 310's in the past. Also excellent speakers, but MA-1 makes a world of difference if your room is not optimal.

 

[burninblack]

As an owner of the KH80 and an ma-1 I would choose the 150. before I bought the 80s I compared them to the 120s. And of course the 120 had a fuller bass the 80s where a bit more precise just more neutral. The 120 and 310 are very good speaker but older in design. That’s for your question. But in my opinion if you buy any Neumann speaker, don‘t keep your subwoofer. In your small room I think the KH80 and the KH750 is the better solution. Your are so close to the speaker, that’s what the 80s for. Maybe the 120 II with DSP. You sell the mini dsp (or keep it for your Hi-Fi) and go digital to the 750 and from there to the KH80. I know you want to upgrade to the next class, but believe me the DSP an the MA 1 do this upgrade in sound. And the rest of the money put it into room treatment. Because dips in your room acoustic can’t be corrected by DSPs. You have to fight them physical.

 

[NoTBaTMaN]

If you get Neumann speakers, please do yourself a favor and get the MA-1 system and one or two KH 750 DSP.
I have the KH310s and the difference the sub in combination with the MA-1 system made is invaluable, even with a well treated room.
A sub is a must imo.

 

[badspeakerdesigner]

I'm a big proponent of saving money, and your ADI correction looks weird, surprised no one has chimed in on that. Like what's the +12db at 94hz with q of 9 for? Are you trying to fill a null?

Your in room response looks wonky to me, is that after correction? You can do way better, are you doing it by eye? Are you letting REQ generate filters?

 

[Django]

Hi everyone, I am considering upgrade my genelec, but feeling difficult to decided between kh150 and 310s, hoping anyone here could give me some help.
For now I am using two genelec 8030s with RME ADI-2 DAC and a dynaudio 9s subwoofer. I use this set up for both listening and creation. I work on basically every step in a music production workflow, while emphasizing on sound design and mixing. Here's some images of my room:
View attachment 287375
View attachment 287371
and a cad drawing with room size (in millimeters)
View attachment 287378
I know that the acoustic env is terrible but I'm not able to change the room for now :-(
I manually did a room calibration using a minidsp mesurement mic with the 5-band parametric eq came from the rme dac. The calibration curve is like this
View attachment 287359
and the calibrated room response looks like this
View attachment 287365
I added some more bass on purpose cause this make me feel better when enjoying music from others, while when mixing and mastering for my own i decay bass of 2db on rme dac, then the bass side of the curve does not tilt up. The response curve seems okay but I am not sure how to evaluate the phase curve, i would appreciate if anyone could help to comment on.

I just considered upgrade my speakers to neumann kh 150, the dsp calibration is charming, which is believed to be much much better than my manual work. However I then found the 8-inch kh310s are also not unreachable, which seems to much more powerful than 150s. In my country a pair of kh310s are listed at 3840 usd, while two 150s + ma-1 kit are 3520 usd, tax & ship incl. These are regular prices, not some time limited offer. This is weird cause it seems the price difference is larger in websites selling them in u.s. or europe. This makes kh310s more tempting. However, in the kh150 discussion thread I found someone claiming they can not hear difference between 310s and 150s. Is this common for most people?

So here comes the actual question: does neumann dsp calibration really improves a lot for my setup, compared to the manual para eq? Or does the power of 310 just overwhelm the 150s even only with the manual eq?

Another issue is that I want to continue using the dynaudio subwoofer with the neumann speakers. I have an antelope zen go with dsp inside and it outputs both analog and digital audio, with which I can output digital siginal for kh150s, do its own calibration, and output analog signal to the lfe input of the sub, with a low-pass eq that only leave the low-end that 150s lacks. does this solution make any sense ?

Thank a lot for your reply !

Upgrading Adam A 7X. Looking at KH 310. KH 150. Saw both require 2 subs. $4-5 K goes to 8K. Need quality. Genelec,Barefoot,Focal. Want good bass.

 

[dfuller]

Upgrading Adam A 7X. Looking at KH 310. KH 150. Saw both require 2 subs. $4-5 K goes to 8K. Need quality. Genelec,Barefoot,Focal. Want good bass.

The 310s go low, they just don't get particularly loud doing so.

Skip Focal and Barefoot.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

The KH150's dispersion is much more narrow but also more even than KH310's. Personally, i have a lot of trouble with reflections, so in my small room, i am actually considering downgrading my 310s to the 150s. Precise imaging is more important to me than wide, but your preference may be different.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The KH150's dispersion is much more narrow but also more even than KH310's. Personally, i have a lot of trouble with reflections, so in my small room, i am actually considering downgrading my 310s to the 150s. Precise imaging is more important to me than wide, but your preference may be different.

How much more SPL and bass output KH310 has vs KH150?