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Canada Vs USA

carewser

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No i'm not talking about sports matchups (this is ASR after all) but two speaker companies-one hailing from Vancouver and the other, Austin. The similarities start there as both are desirable cities of similar sizes and the similarities continue with their products, pricing, specs and looks. Both companies were even founded the same year-2007

If you haven't figured it out yet i'm talking about Kanto and Audioengine. For me it all started with buying Kanto's desktop speaker stands as I own myriad desktop speakers but of course Audioengine also sell desktop speaker stands but as Kanto's were cheaper I went with theirs. Later on I found a great deal on a used set of Audioengine A5+ speakers so I grabbed them followed by a new Audioengine sub which I wanted so badly I paid full price for and still feel like I easily got my money's worth, finally culminating in a new pair of Kanto Tuk's. Even at a significant discount the Tuk's are the most expensive speakers i've ever owned and the most expensive speakers made by either company. As much as I like the Tuk's, they are so feature filled they're actually annoying, the owner's manual is 16 pages long! For a pair of speakers! The only other speakers I can imagine that are more complicated are the KEF LS50's. Comparatively the A5+ owner's manual is 9 pages long. In terms of sound and looks the Tuk's win but in terms of reliability Audioengine wins as i've never had any problems with either the A5+ speakers (even though I got them used) or the sub. The Tuk's on the other hand have already been replaced with a new set as the first set would occasionally power surge. Being Canadian myself i'd love to root for the home team but overall I'd have to give the victory to Audioengine even though the Tuk's look and sound better

Thoughts? Experiences?
 

Jim Shaw

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No i'm not talking about sports matchups (this is ASR after all) but two speaker companies-one hailing from Vancouver and the other, Austin. The similarities start there as both are desirable cities of similar sizes and the similarities continue with their products, pricing, specs and looks. Both companies were even founded the same year-2007

If you haven't figured it out yet i'm talking about Kanto and Audioengine. For me it all started with buying Kanto's desktop speaker stands as I own myriad desktop speakers but of course Audioengine also sell desktop speaker stands but as Kanto's were cheaper I went with theirs. Later on I found a great deal on a used set of Audioengine A5+ speakers so I grabbed them followed by a new Audioengine sub which I wanted so badly I paid full price for and still feel like I easily got my money's worth, finally culminating in a new pair of Kanto Tuk's. Even at a significant discount the Tuk's are the most expensive speakers i've ever owned and the most expensive speakers made by either company. As much as I like the Tuk's, they are so feature filled they're actually annoying, the owner's manual is 16 pages long! For a pair of speakers! The only other speakers I can imagine that are more complicated are the KEF LS50's. Comparatively the A5+ owner's manual is 9 pages long. In terms of sound and looks the Tuk's win but in terms of reliability Audioengine wins as i've never had any problems with either the A5+ speakers (even though I got them used) or the sub. The Tuk's on the other hand have already been replaced with a new set as the first set would occasionally power surge. Being Canadian myself i'd love to root for the home team but overall I'd have to give the victory to Audioengine even though the Tuk's look and sound better

Thoughts? Experiences?
Well, in the world of expensive things, service is very important. The finest doomsday speaker, distortion-free, capable of reproducing DC to light at cumulo-nimbus SPL's is painful if it arrives broken or starts making gasping noises a year later. Closer may or may not be better. And, I know, service and support are hard to do due diligence on.

It may not be a deciding factor, but it's a big factor. Eg: return shipping to Denmark or Austria may cost a ton. It is why I try to deal with a reseller with a good reputation (with me) for service and support. Mine starts with "C". [This is not an ad.]
 

audio2design

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Being Canadian myself i'd love to root for the home team but overall I'd have to give the victory to Audioengine even though the Tuk's look and sound better

Thoughts? Experiences?

There is design quality, and there is quality control. They are not the same thing, but they can be related.

I can't imagine a speaker being "annoying". A long owners manual does not mean you need to read it all.

Comparatively in the speaker world, Tuks are not expensive. I realize expensive to you, but over life (assuming they survive), the cost is minimal compared to usage. But we all have competing spends.
 

NiagaraPete

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I thought this thread was about "Canadian Bacon" (the film).
 
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carewser

carewser

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You should probably stay well clear of the RME ADI-2 DAC then…
My point was that i'll bet most speakers come with a diagram showing how to hook up the +/- terminals from the left and right speakers into the amp/receiver, the specs, the warranty info and that's about it. These things have the capability to automatically power up/power down (I have no idea what the point of this feature is but it explains why mine have turned on all by themselves numerous times) and swap channels-another feature that is about as close to useless as I could imagine

I'm sure newer home theater receivers (like 13.2 channel) have owners manuals that are gargantuan as you can hook up practically every device in your house to them
 
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carewser

carewser

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Comparatively in the speaker world, Tuks are not expensive. I realize expensive to you, but over life (assuming they survive), the cost is minimal compared to usage. But we all have competing spends.
I really don't think most people spend $700 on speakers, particularly people in my lowly income bracket, let alone the fact they normally retail for $1100/pair
 

audio2design

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You had one replacement of the Tuks. Not overly unusual. Wrt "complexity" that speaks to your own lack of due diligence. All that information I am readily available ahead of time. Auto power on/off is common for powered speakers just like to powered subs. 16 pages is minimal. The swapping is both a convenience features and allows swapping them as mains and surrounds in more complex setups where the front and back of the room changes.

If there is not more data for Kanto failures it seems like a rant.
 
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carewser

carewser

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You had one replacement of the Tuks. Not overly unusual
Wrt "complexity" that speaks to your own lack of due diligence. All that information I am readily available ahead of time. Auto power on/off is common for powered speakers just like to powered subs. 16 pages is minimal. The swapping is both a convenience features and allows swapping them as mains and surrounds in more complex setups where the front and back of the room changes.
It's common for people to be wrong on the internet I see it all the time, occasionally i'm wrong myself, what's unusual about your post is how wrong you are in your post

It is unusual to have problems this early on actually, I had problems with my first set of Tuk's sooner than any other speakers I own and I own many sets of powered speakers. Most haven't given me any trouble although Kanto's tech support was good about replacing them

As far as my lack of due diligence goes you're wrong there too as I had less than a day to decide to buy them as the sale was ending the day I found out they were on sale and there was no way I was going to pay full price for them but according to you I needed to familiarize myself with the owner's manual and/or watch/read every review on them before purchase to know exactly how they work which is of course ludicrous. As it was I got the last set in the city which was the floor model which they had to repackage for me. Had I spent time researching them as you suggest I might never have gotten them at all as someone else may have beaten me to them

You're also wrong about the auto power on/off feature on subs being common as I own two subs and neither of them have this feature although my one sub does auto power off after a while but the point of the auto power on feature is baffling, an explanation as to the purpose of this feature would be great because i've never heard of any sub or speakers auto powering on yet that's a feature of the Tuk's
 

DonH56

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I have seven subs from three brands and two pairs of active speakers from two different brands. All have auto-on, not all have trigger inputs to power them up. A standard trigger circuit is a relatively new thing in the hi-fi world, and implemented differently in the pro world, plus you have to run a trigger cable in addition to the signal cable to a sub to use it that way. Some folk use wireless adapters and so have no way to trigger the sub. The choice is leave it on and fully-powered all the time, or use a little auto-on circuit that draws minimal power and turns the main amp on (sub or speaker) automatically when an audio signal is sensed. I don't like leaving stuff on all the time.

As for the manual, one of the first things I do before buying a piece of equipment is to download the manual and look through it to see what it has and does not. If you think 16 pages is bad, try an AVP, or just look at a car manual (yes, I like to download and look through that too as part of my purchase decision). My theory is that I want to know what I am getting before plopping down a bunch of money so read the manual first.

Most products fail early or late in life with a long period between when they work just fine. Hopefully earliest failures are caught during final test but things sometimes slip through. It happens to the most expensive and the cheapest gear no matter how well design and testing goes -- always a chance something slips through. The reputation of a company is built upon not only how few early failures are fielded but how they handle the ones that do.

IMO, YMMV, etc. - Don
 

audio2design

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It is unusual to have problems this early on actually, I had problems with my first set of Tuk's sooner than any other speakers I own and I own many sets of powered speakers. Most haven't given me any trouble although Kanto's tech support was good about replacing them

It's called infant mortality. It is far more likely to have issue early in owning an electronics product than at any other time in the normal warranty period. Problems either happen early due to MFG defect (final manufacturers defect, shipping induced defect, or in any number of subcomponents) or you have random failures over the life and electrical/physical over stress, or you have end of life failures (capacitors wearing out, etc). The other case of failure is of course user damage, most "random" cell phone failures are due to physical damage, not necessarily at that moment. It could have been a drop 3 months ago.

It is unusual to have problems this early on actually, I had problems with my first set of Tuk's sooner than any other speakers I own and I own many sets of powered speakers. Most haven't given me any trouble although Kanto's tech support was good about replacing them

As far as my lack of due diligence goes you're wrong there too as I had less than a day to decide to buy them as the sale was ending the day I found out they were on sale and there was no way I was going to pay full price for them but according to you I needed to familiarize myself with the owner's manual and/or watch/read every review on them before purchase to know exactly how they work which is of course ludicrous. As it was I got the last set in the city which was the floor model which they had to repackage for me. Had I spent time researching them as you suggest I might never have gotten them at all as someone else may have beaten me to them

You're also wrong about the auto power on/off feature on subs being common as I own two subs and neither of them have this feature although my one sub does auto power off after a while but the point of the auto power on feature is baffling, an explanation as to the purpose of this feature would be great because i've never heard of any sub or speakers auto powering on yet that's a feature of the Tuk's


As far as my lack of due diligence goes you're wrong there too as I had less than a day to decide to buy them as the sale was ending the day I found out they were on sale and there was no way I was going to pay full price for them ....
Really no comment is required here, but I will anyway. Due to YOUR lack of time, YOUR desire to take advantage of a sale, YOUR unwillingness to pay more, and YOUR lack of knowledge w.r.t. the potential complexity of a powered speaker, it is SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT. Are you familiar with the word entitlement?

You're also wrong about the auto power on/off feature on subs being common as I own two subs and neither of them have this feature although my one sub does auto power off after a while but the point of the auto power on feature is baffling, an explanation as to the purpose of this feature would be great because i've never heard of any sub or speakers auto powering on yet that's a feature of the Tuk's

Here is a thread from 2007 discussing automatic on/off: https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?35932-Active-speakers-with-auto-power-on-off

2016: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/de...h-auto-standby-auto-on.2551537/#post-46115233

That was the first 2 hits and I think my point is proven. This feature has been around for over a decade, and becomes more and more common. The reason should be self evident. Power savings. Standby power on a 1000W subwoofer amplifier is not trivial and quickly escalates the electricity bills if on 24/7.

Again your blaming Kanto for YOUR lack of knowledge.
 

Jim Shaw

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This has quickly turned into a food fight. When a food fight breaks out, I leave the scene.
 
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carewser

carewser

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I have seven subs from three brands and two pairs of active speakers from two different brands. All have auto-on, not all have trigger inputs to power them up. A standard trigger circuit is a relatively new thing in the hi-fi world, and implemented differently in the pro world, plus you have to run a trigger cable in addition to the signal cable to a sub to use it that way. Some folk use wireless adapters and so have no way to trigger the sub. The choice is leave it on and fully-powered all the time, or use a little auto-on circuit that draws minimal power and turns the main amp on (sub or speaker) automatically when an audio signal is sensed. I don't like leaving stuff on all the time.

As for the manual, one of the first things I do before buying a piece of equipment is to download the manual and look through it to see what it has and does not. If you think 16 pages is bad, try an AVP, or just look at a car manual (yes, I like to download and look through that too as part of my purchase decision). My theory is that I want to know what I am getting before plopping down a bunch of money so read the manual first.

Most products fail early or late in life with a long period between when they work just fine. Hopefully earliest failures are caught during final test but things sometimes slip through. It happens to the most expensive and the cheapest gear no matter how well design and testing goes -- always a chance something slips through. The reputation of a company is built upon not only how few early failures are fielded but how they handle the ones that do.
My Audioengine sub is usually in sleep mode but it powers on when it receives a signal and after a while of receiving no signal goes back to sleep which makes sense since the sub has no remote. What doesn't makes sense is the auto power up/auto power down feature of the Tuk's since they come with a remote, particularly since they randomly turn on sometimes without even receiving a signal.

As I explained in my previous post, I had no time to do anything but get to the stereo shop and buy them ASAP to get the sale price (which saved me hundreds of dollars) and i'm pretty sure I got the last pair of Tuk's in the city which the shop had to repackage for me as they were the floor models
It's called infant mortality

Really no comment is required here, but I will anyway. Due to YOUR lack of time, YOUR desire to take advantage of a sale, YOUR unwillingness to pay more, and YOUR lack of knowledge w.r.t. the potential complexity of a powered speaker, it is SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT. Are you familiar with the word entitlement?

Again your blaming Kanto for YOUR lack of knowledge.
Wrong and wrong

As I have explained over and over, the Tuk's I got were the floor models which mean't the shop had to repackage them before selling them to me so this has nothing to do with "infant mortality" and makes the fact they were defective all the more confounding since you think they would have had problems with them in the store before selling them to me but apparently not or if they did experience problems they didn't do anything about them. Also, you asking me if i'm familiar with the word "entitlement" is ironic because you obviously don't understand what it means as Kanto sent me a replacement set of Tuk's due to the original set being faulty shows no "entitlement" on anyone's part
This has quickly turned into a food fight. When a food fight breaks out, I leave the scene.
Why do people that have nothing to say still feel the need to comment?
 
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carewser

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You have no idea why I started this discussion but I can assure you it wasn't for "sympathy", if anything I thought other Kanto/Audioengine owners might weigh in but apparently not

What's more, i'd be impressed if you've spent half the time reflecting on your life that i've spent reflecting on mine because I only see evidence to the contrary
 
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KantoLiving

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For anyone reading this post in the future - you can disable automatic power down on TUK by holding down the bass reset button for 5 seconds.
 
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carewser

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You
For anyone reading this post in the future - you can disable automatic power down on TUK by holding down the bass reset button for 5 seconds.
You guys offer good tech support which is how i learned about that feature as both pairs of Tuk's i've owned have automatically turned on many times so what's the point of that feature?
 
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carewser

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The Automatic Power Up and Automatic Power Down feature makes no sense to me as I can already do that both from the speaker and from the remote so why do I need a third way? Particularly since both pairs of Tuk's i've owned have randomly turned on many times. On my subwoofer it makes sense to have auto power on/off because it has no remote so having to physically turn it on and off every time would be a bit of a pain but on the Tuk's it just seems like tech for the sake of tech. A feature that would be far more useful instead would be an indicator showing volume level, although my Audioengine A5+ speakers don't show volume level either
 
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