Can you recommend better headphones than AKG N5005? 500$ ++ ultra high end reference class. IEM

[FTB]

Large peaks and dips in the treble, here are the frequency responses of the IEMs you recommended compared to an IEM the measures smoother in the treble.

The Zero:Red shows a large hole in the treble, Chu 2 has a huge peak. The Zero:2 is better than the other two, but has poor extension and smaller peaks and dips . These are problems that cannot be easily fixed with EQ (probably cannot be fixed, period).

You don't use the tool with the right preference target.

Harman target is the one based on sciences, not the others preference curves made by guess who. One only person making a preference curve isn't repeatable sciences.

RAW and compensated graphs of the IEMs discussed.

I think Amir's measurements are better as they are unsmoothed.

The Zero:RED has only a slightly drop in trebles, not so much : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ruthear-x-crinacle-zero-red-iem-review.44865/

 

[coolkids]

Large peaks and dips in the treble, here are the frequency responses of the IEMs you recommended compared to an IEM the measures smoother in the treble.

The Zero:Red shows a large hole in the treble, Chu 2 has a huge peak. The Zero:2 is better than the other two, but has poor extension and smaller peaks and dips . These are problems that cannot be easily fixed with EQ (probably cannot be fixed, period).

So what to do , where to go, who is the reference class with cable these days,
its year 2025 , arent new players in the marked with cable i mean, high end brands,
does bose or someone else mark levinson make cable headphones?
iem form.
i preffer to go with popular brand instead of chinese hidden brands.

 

[propaganda1]

You don't use the tool with the right preference target.

Harman target is the one based on sciences, not the others preference curves made by guess who. One only person making a preference curve isn't repeatable sciences.

RAW and compensated graphs of the IEMs discussed.

I think Amir's measurements are better as they are unsmoothed.

The Zero:RED has only a slightly drop in trebles, not so much : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ruthear-x-crinacle-zero-red-iem-review.44865/

The target I was using was the 5128-DF, using a diffuse field target gives a much more accurate representation of average frequency response. Why would you use a preference target for this?

 

[SuicideSquid]

Large peaks and dips in the treble, here are the frequency responses of the IEMs you recommended compared to an IEM the measures smoother in the treble.

The Zero:Red shows a large hole in the treble, Chu 2 has a huge peak. The Zero:2 is better than the other two, but has poor extension and smaller peaks and dips . These are problems that cannot be easily fixed with EQ (probably cannot be fixed, period).

1. Small peaks and valleys above around 8kHz are often caused by the measurement equipment, not the IEM - this is noted by Amir in most of his IEM reviews;
2. Frequency is intentionally rolled off in the top octave with IEMs because of the proximity between the driver and the eardrum and the seal between the IEM and the ear canal - if you made an IEM with "flat" treble it would be perceived as extremely bright.
2. Typically narrow peaks or valleys in the high treble range are inaudible - 10kHz - 20kHz represents a single octave (20-40Hz is an octave, 80-160 is an octave, 160-320, etc). A small peak or valley within a single octave at the upper limit of human hearing is almost never going to be audible when listening to music. If you have very good hearing you might pick it out in sine sweeps, but even then, it can be very difficult.

 

[FTB]

The target I was using was the 5128-DF, using a diffuse field target gives a much more accurate representation of average frequency response. Why would you use a preference target for this?

As far as I know, diffuse field is outdated for headphones and IEMs.

 

[propaganda1]

1. Small peaks and valleys above around 8kHz are often caused by the measurement equipment, not the IEM - this is noted by Amir in most of his IEM reviews;
2. Frequency is intentionally rolled off in the top octave with IEMs because of the proximity between the driver and the eardrum and the seal between the IEM and the ear canal - if you made an IEM with "flat" treble it would be perceived as extremely bright.
2. Typically narrow peaks or valleys in the high treble range are inaudible - 10kHz - 20kHz represents a single octave (20-40Hz is an octave, 80-160 is an octave, 160-320, etc). A small peak or valley within a single octave at the upper limit of human hearing is almost never going to be audible when listening to music. If you have very good hearing you might pick it out in sine sweeps, but even then, it can be very difficult.

1. I wouldn't call those small peaks and valleys.
2. I understand this, you can see the drop you am talking about in all the IEM's I recommended. But the Zero:RED drops off much earlier than the others, that is just not full treble extension.
3. Again, I would not call those narrow peaks and valleys.

At the end of the day, a smoother treble response is always going to be more optimal, wouldn't you agree? Paying a little extra for the Truthear Nova with foam tips will give you a level of performance you cannot get with the cheaper IEM's you recommended. To me, even if the IEM is 20$, I find it a waste of money if a chunk of the treble is missing, as you cannot call it true high fidelity. Of course, I am fortunate enough to live in a country where 20$ isn't too much; what I said does not apply to more budget-conscious members of our community, a pair of IEM's is better than nothing!

 

[SuicideSquid]

1. I wouldn't call those small peaks and valleys.
2. I understand this, you can see the drop you am talking about in all the IEM's I recommended. But the Zero:RED drops off much earlier than the others, that is just not full treble extension.
3. Again, I would not call those narrow peaks and valleys.

At the end of the day, a smoother treble response is always going to be more optimal, wouldn't you agree? Paying a little extra for the Truthear Nova with foam tips will give you a level of performance you cannot get with the cheaper IEM's you recommended. To me, even if the IEM is 20$, I find it a waste of money if a chunk of the treble is missing, as you cannot call it true high fidelity. Of course, I am fortunate enough to live in a country where 20$ isn't too much; what I said does not apply to more budget-conscious members of our community, a pair of IEM's is better than nothing!

I think the smoothing on the graphs you posted is significantly over-representing the size of those peaks and valleys. Here's Amir's measurements of the Truthear Red:

That is tracking the Harman curve very closely, with a very small peak at around 14kHz. That is a *very* narrow peak for that range. If it's real, and not a measurement artifact, it will be inaudible in actual music listening. The small deficit between 5 and 8kHz may be good, bad, or neutral, depending on listener preference. To suggest that this is terrible treble response is ludicrous, it's very close to ideal. Again keep in mind that when you're talking about the 10-20kHz region, which is one octave, a peak over a 400Hz region is less than a single note.

Per Amir's measurements the Moondrop Chu II has almost no shortfall anywhere in the 10-20kHz range and a slightly wider peak around 12khz, but again, that may be a measurement artifact. The Salnotes 7Hz Zero 2 has a small dip in teh 5-8kHz region similar to the Truthears, then a very narrow dip at 10kHz and very narrow peak at 12kHz (also worth nothing that these "peaks" and "dips" are +/- about 3dB - these would be completely smoothed out on a typical loudspeaker frequency response graph).

Again, these are very small deviations from ideal, likely to be inaudible in that range, and much better than the treble response one sees from most headphones or loudspeakers.

 

[Curupira]

Large peaks and dips in the treble, here are the frequency responses of the IEMs you recommended compared to an IEM the measures smoother in the treble.

The Zero:Red shows a large hole in the treble, Chu 2 has a huge peak. The Zero:2 is better than the other two, but has poor extension and smaller peaks and dips . These are problems that cannot be easily fixed with EQ (probably cannot be fixed, period).

What is treble for you? 5-9khz range in iems is really controlled and preference based. 10khz and upwards is completely unreliable in measurements due to in-ear differences from person to person. Still, I'd take iem treble consistency over headphone dips and peaks and speaker (tweeter) directivity errors any day, specially if I'm not listening at near field.

i tried over the years many chinese products high end low end and i have issues quality issues they arrive broken brand new non working sometimes... i preffer to go with high end brand quality one .

That old-school philosophy doesn't apply to the chinese iem market as it actually often overperforms against high end traditional brands. I have had more japanese and german iems breaking (plastic fitted construction and fixed cables were the main culprits) than I've had modern chinese iems, even the cheap ones. I'd urge you to try a 20-50 dollar iem recommended here before splurging on a $500 one.

i preffer to go with popular brand instead of chinese hidden brands.

They are hardly hidden, they're just not mass market driven. And yet, the best performing mass market european brands started to copy them in recent years in tuning and even packaging.

 

[markanini]

The treble response of real ears varies with unique peaks and dips. The peaks and dips of an IEM can be canceled out or amplified. It's impossible to tell the actual FR outcome only by looking at a graph.

 

[tomtoo]

Akg with parametric eq

 

[jhaider]

I believe for end-game audio, EQ is a must, as everyones HRTF is different and you cannot expect to get a headphone that is a perfect match to your HRTF out of the box.

What I am about to say would annoy cause problems elsewhere but this is a science based forum, but endgame audio comes down to your headphone being as smooth as possible in the treble (passed 6kHZ), and then EQing the rest to your preference.

Purchase a Qudelix 5K (this is a powerful, very portable, bluetooth DAC/AMP with DSP, for around 100USD; the biggest bargain in audio) and one of the following IEM's:

1. Moondrop Variations
2. Truthear Nova (with Tripowin Spiral Groove Tips)
3. Simgot EM6L

FWIW, I have N5005 and Truthear Nova. I don’t know the other two you reference. Sound quality is IMO not that different, but the build quality and comfort of N5005 are much better. (Nova is better than Truthear Zero, which has a gigantic nozzle and is painful to wear IMO.) In no way is Nova an upgrade over N5005.

Agree on the Qudelix 5k though.

 

[zonk]

FWIW, I have N5005 and Truthear Nova. I don’t know the other two you reference. Sound quality is IMO not that different, but the build quality and comfort of N5005 are much better. (Nova is better than Truthear Zero, which has a gigantic nozzle and is painful to wear IMO.) In no way is Nova an upgrade over N5005.

Agree on the Qudelix 5k though.

Comfort is something personal. Both measure quite good.
- AKG N5005 measurements
- Truthear Nova measurements

The AKG is a quite old set and was sold for 1k. What's in the package is quite impressive.
The Truthear is available for 150$/€.

 

[propaganda1]

I think the smoothing on the graphs you posted is significantly over-representing the size of those peaks and valleys. Here's Amir's measurements of the Truthear Red:

5128 gives a much more accurate representation, especially in the treble, no? These are from crinacle's database, didn't touch any of the plot settings.

The small deficit between 5 and 8kHz may be good, bad, or neutral, depending on listener preference.

Most definitely, but I would rather have an IEM that measures smooth, and EQ any dips/peaks that I prefer myself, than purchase an IEM with a dip there and try to fill in that dip (much more difficult to get done right).

To suggest that this is terrible treble response is ludicrous, it's very close to ideal

Following the Harman target doesn't make treble ideal (not important, but I personally find Harman way too shouty).

Ideal treble is a treble response that measures smoothly in DF. Which will in turn allow you to more easily make the adjustments to reach your personal treble preference. The dips and peaks found in the Zero:RED would not allow you to do this easily (if not at all).

With the Nova, you could adjust the upper treble to preference using just a high shelf filter and have perfect upper treble, not many other IEMs could do the same. Also, the Zero:RED has straight up bad extension to 20kHz, you can check different measurements.

Funnily enough, if matching Harman is ideal, then you should agree that the Truthear Nova's are one of the best IEM's on the market, it follows Harman to a T!

Again, these are very small deviations from ideal, likely to be inaudible in that range, and much better than the treble response one sees from most headphones or loudspeakers.

Sure, they may be likely to be inaudible, but they also may be likely to not, and in the case of the Chu 2 (which I own, it is definitely audible). Why take that risk when straight up better measuring IEM's exist?

 

[propaganda1]

What is treble for you?

Treble that has as little dips or peaks as possible. In an ideal world, it would sound how treble out of a pair of Neumann's would sound.

 

[coolkids]

hi team, i ordered akg n5005 they have 1 unique feature, they are wired + blue tooth, so both worlds if battery holds a charge, i dont care much about blue tooth i will probably never use it , but its unique feature which others are missing i will use these headphones with 3.5mm aux port or with adapter to usb c... to my other devices.
i will be able to try headphones in 2-3 months since they travel from usa to my far away country .
they dont have direct shipping so several countries..

 

[Audiodidact]

Sony IER-M9. Superb. Out of production but available old stock. Best iems I've had or heard.

 

[Reconstruct]

I own n5005. It is really really good. Dont bother with chifi iems- they all have flaws in one form or another. Uber expensive iem not worth either. Truth lies in the middle.

 

[FTB]

I own n5005. It is really really good. Dont bother with chifi iems- they all have flaws in one form or another. Uber expensive iem not worth either. Truth lies in the middle.

Chifi iems are not bad, they are good and 50$ only. (Truthear zero)

 

[Reconstruct]

I had the zero. It has grainy highs.

 

[FTB]

Yes the Zero (blue) is a bit above the target, I can't listen to them (too shooty) but the Red are ok.

If you look at the Truthear Nova, they are almost perfect and it's less than 200 € :

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

N5005 was 1k €.

There is good chinese IEMs, saying the opposite would be false.