Can you hear a difference? 250hz and 1250hz playing at same time, but 1250 Hz is at 60db down. Vs pure 250hz tone.

[Pdxwayne]

I was able to hear a difference using AKG 371, but not easy at all. Got abx results of 8/8. Then one member said "everyone" can hear a difference. I asked the member to give abx result but I got none. The other member chimed in to support the first member and basically said science already supports that claim. I asked for abx from the second member and again was ignored.
[Update 3:. Both members responded. First member can hear a difference and can pass abx. Second member so far can't hear a difference.]

Would you please take a listen to the two files and tell me if you think "everyone" can hear a difference? Or, you think most people can't hear a difference?

You can just download and quickly listen and tell me your impressions. Of cause, it would be great if you can provide your abx results. Thanks!

Files are here:

250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav and 1 more file

2 files sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world

we.tl

Update:
I found out that using my speakers setup is very easy to tell a difference. The issue seems related to AKG 371.

Update 2:
Add what I have tried so far:
*AKG with Topping E30 and L30 - not obvious. Need to concentrate hard to get 8/8 abx.
*AKG with Samsung Note 9 phone - not obvious. Did not do ABX.
*$50 cheap headphones with Topping E30 and L30 - not obvious. Did not do abx.
*~$150 Andrew Jones designed Pioneer speakers with Topping chain, minidsp 2x4, and Parasound A23 amp - not obvious at all. Did not do abx.
*Laptop speakers - not obvious at all.
*Living room setup with Paradigm Persona B speakers - obvious. Can easily tell files apart. Did not do abx as family members are around. Quickly tried -70db down at 1250hz and can still sense a difference easier than when using AKG 371 to abx -60db down.

Update 4:
*AKG with Gustard X16 and H16, H16 at volume level 35, able to pass abx. 8/8. 1250hz barely noticeable, but good enough to pass abx.

 

[voodooless]

Did not do an ABX, just used my phone, and stock wired apple earphones which barely work. The difference was obviously even at low level.

 

[abdo123]

It's fairly easy.


foo_abx 2.0.6d report
foobar2000 v1.6.5
2021-10-23 23:04:16

File A: 250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav
SHA1: b604c1acb2c2cdc3fd9bceba6aef1358de8d1a6e
File B: 250hz_tone.wav
SHA1: 9bedd7cc84145a54cc2979ec4bbf86d51f0f082a

Output:
Default : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO

23:04:16 : Test started.
23:04:30 : 01/01
23:04:40 : 02/02
23:04:48 : 03/03
23:05:02 : 04/04
23:05:21 : 05/05
23:05:36 : 06/06
23:06:11 : 07/07
23:06:53 : 08/08
23:07:07 : 09/09
23:07:17 : 10/10
23:07:28 : 11/11
23:07:36 : 12/12
23:07:45 : 13/13
23:07:51 : 14/14
23:07:58 : 15/15
23:08:07 : 16/16
23:08:07 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/16
p-value: 0 (0%)

-- signature --
1bbc8cf178db4fea608fd9fccc9d30861f5d52c4

 

[Jimbob54]

I was able to hear a difference, but not easy at all. Got abx results of 8/8. Then one member said "everyone" can hear a difference. I asked the member to give abx result but I got none. The other member chimed in to support the first member and basically said science already supports that claim. I asked for abx from the second member and again was ignored.

Would you please take a listen to the two files and tell me if you think "everyone" can hear a difference? Or, you think most people can't hear a difference?

You can just download and quickly listen and tell me your impressions. Of cause, it would be great if you can provide your abx results. Thanks!

Files are here:

250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav and 1 more file

2 files sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world

we.tl

I'm pretty sure all anyone can do is tell you whether they can hear a difference.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Did not do an ABX, just used my phone, and stock wired apple earphones which barely work. The difference was obviously even at low level.

Do you think everyone can hear it? Thx!

 

[Pdxwayne]

It's fairly easy.


foo_abx 2.0.6d report
foobar2000 v1.6.5
2021-10-23 23:04:16

File A: 250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav
SHA1: b604c1acb2c2cdc3fd9bceba6aef1358de8d1a6e
File B: 250hz_tone.wav
SHA1: 9bedd7cc84145a54cc2979ec4bbf86d51f0f082a

Output:
Default : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO

23:04:16 : Test started.
23:04:30 : 01/01
23:04:40 : 02/02
23:04:48 : 03/03
23:05:02 : 04/04
23:05:21 : 05/05
23:05:36 : 06/06
23:06:11 : 07/07
23:06:53 : 08/08
23:07:07 : 09/09
23:07:17 : 10/10
23:07:28 : 11/11
23:07:36 : 12/12
23:07:45 : 13/13
23:07:51 : 14/14
23:07:58 : 15/15
23:08:07 : 16/16
23:08:07 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/16
p-value: 0 (0%)

-- signature --
1bbc8cf178db4fea608fd9fccc9d30861f5d52c4

Do you think everyone can hear it? Thx!

 

[abdo123]

Do you think everyone can hear it? Thx!

I would say yes under controlled conditions. it's super non-linear.

 

[voodooless]

Do you think everyone can hear it? Thx!

Probably not.. some people have hearing deficiencies. But for people with an average hearing, I’d say yes, anyone should be able to hear this.

 

[Pdxwayne]

I would say yes under controlled conditions. it's super non-linear.

I wonder why they ignored me. Just listen and let me know, right?

Thx!

 

[Pdxwayne]

Probably not.. some people have hearing deficiencies. But for people with an average hearing, I’d say yes, anyone should be able to hear this.

Interesting, I wonder why using AKG 371 is not that easy for me. I will try using different headphones to check. Thx for the feedback!

 

[abdo123]

I wonder why they ignored me. Just listen and let me know, right?

Thx!

Probably no patience or time, the harmonic you generated would be around 1.5% THD if it were to be linear, and 1% is my threshold for tones.

I can probably do -70dB 5th harmonic (like you generated without masking) if the 5th harmonic lies in the 1-5KHz region.

 

[voodooless]

I wonder why they ignored me. Just listen and let me know, right?

I’m pretty sure it’s a combination of “this is super obvious, why waste my time”, still persisting from your side and posturing all over the place. In other words: generic forum behavior.

 

[loboedgar]

foo_abx 2.0.6d report
foobar2000 v1.6.6
2021-10-23 23:22:54

File A: 250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav
SHA1: b604c1acb2c2cdc3fd9bceba6aef1358de8d1a6e
File B: 250hz_tone.wav
SHA1: 9bedd7cc84145a54cc2979ec4bbf86d51f0f082a

Output:
WASAPI (push) : TX-NR636 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio), 24-bit
Crossfading: NO

23:22:54 : Test started.
23:23:10 : 01/01
23:23:24 : 02/02
23:23:35 : 03/03
23:23:44 : 04/04
23:23:55 : 05/05
23:24:07 : 06/06
23:24:16 : 07/07
23:24:27 : 08/08
23:24:39 : 09/09
23:24:47 : 10/10
23:24:57 : 11/11
23:25:11 : 12/12
23:25:24 : 13/13
23:25:35 : 14/14
23:25:43 : 15/15
23:25:51 : 16/16
23:25:51 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/16
p-value: 0 (0%)

-- signature --
0a2b60496cbef363f46a34236130eaa4ade55529

 

[ericw]

Pretty easy, I averaged <5 seconds per trial. Played back on motherboard audio -> HD 600.

I would say everyone can do this assuming things like: quiet room, reasonable playback equipment, no hearing loss/tinnitus in the frequencies in question (?).

Might be a different story with music.

Spoiler

foo_abx 2.0.6d report
foobar2000 v1.4.1
2021-10-23 15:14:24

File A: 250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav
SHA1: b604c1acb2c2cdc3fd9bceba6aef1358de8d1a6e
File B: 250hz_tone.wav
SHA1: 9bedd7cc84145a54cc2979ec4bbf86d51f0f082a

Output:
DS : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO

15:14:24 : Test started.
15:14:39 : 01/01
15:14:54 : 02/02
15:14:57 : 03/03
15:15:00 : 04/04
15:15:08 : 05/05
15:15:12 : 06/06
15:15:15 : 07/07
15:15:18 : 08/08
15:15:20 : 09/09
15:15:23 : 10/10
15:15:26 : 11/11
15:15:29 : 12/12
15:15:33 : 13/13
15:15:37 : 14/14
15:15:40 : 15/15
15:15:43 : 16/16
15:15:43 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/16
p-value: 0 (0%)

-- signature --
f0cc89d60f8a2c64e0f1bb14f11557e1b1034d6e

 

[Pdxwayne]

foo_abx 2.0.6d report
foobar2000 v1.6.6
2021-10-23 23:22:54

File A: 250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav
SHA1: b604c1acb2c2cdc3fd9bceba6aef1358de8d1a6e
File B: 250hz_tone.wav
SHA1: 9bedd7cc84145a54cc2979ec4bbf86d51f0f082a

Output:
WASAPI (push) : TX-NR636 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio), 24-bit
Crossfading: NO

23:22:54 : Test started.
23:23:10 : 01/01
23:23:24 : 02/02
23:23:35 : 03/03
23:23:44 : 04/04
23:23:55 : 05/05
23:24:07 : 06/06
23:24:16 : 07/07
23:24:27 : 08/08
23:24:39 : 09/09
23:24:47 : 10/10
23:24:57 : 11/11
23:25:11 : 12/12
23:25:24 : 13/13
23:25:35 : 14/14
23:25:43 : 15/15
23:25:51 : 16/16
23:25:51 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/16
p-value: 0 (0%)

-- signature --
0a2b60496cbef363f46a34236130eaa4ade55529

Thank! So you think all people will hear it?

.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Pretty easy, I averaged <5 seconds per trial. Played back on motherboard audio -> HD 600.

I would say everyone can do this assuming things like: quiet room, reasonable playback equipment, no hearing loss/tinnitus in the frequencies in question (?).

Might be a different story with music.

Spoiler

foo_abx 2.0.6d report
foobar2000 v1.4.1
2021-10-23 15:14:24

File A: 250hz_h2_to_h4_120_h5_60.wav
SHA1: b604c1acb2c2cdc3fd9bceba6aef1358de8d1a6e
File B: 250hz_tone.wav
SHA1: 9bedd7cc84145a54cc2979ec4bbf86d51f0f082a

Output:
DS : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO

15:14:24 : Test started.
15:14:39 : 01/01
15:14:54 : 02/02
15:14:57 : 03/03
15:15:00 : 04/04
15:15:08 : 05/05
15:15:12 : 06/06
15:15:15 : 07/07
15:15:18 : 08/08
15:15:20 : 09/09
15:15:23 : 10/10
15:15:26 : 11/11
15:15:29 : 12/12
15:15:33 : 13/13
15:15:37 : 14/14
15:15:40 : 15/15
15:15:43 : 16/16
15:15:43 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/16
p-value: 0 (0%)

-- signature --
f0cc89d60f8a2c64e0f1bb14f11557e1b1034d6e

Interesting. I do have high pitch tinnitus that is pretty loud...

I just checked with different headphones and also using my phone. I can't tell a difference easily.

I have to assume that most normal, maybe younger people, should be able to tell.

 

[restorer-john]

I’m pretty sure it’s a combination of “this is super obvious, why waste my time”, still persisting from your side and posturing all over the place.

Probably correct there.

Let's face it, ABX testing is not an enjoyable pastime. I've done a bunch of them recently and if anything, it turns you off wanting to listen to HiFi.

 

[Pdxwayne]

That is so strange. I got my wife and my daughter to listen with my phone and AKG 371 and they can't tell a difference....So age or tinnitus might not be the issue here.

 

[voodooless]

Let's face it, ABX testing is not an enjoyable pastime. I've done a bunch of them recently and if anything, it turns you off wanting to listen to HiFi.

Yeah.. why needs an ABX test if you have a wife in the adjacent room (for some reason that is usually the kitchen…) that can hear the obvious difference

 

[Pdxwayne]

Yeah.. why needs an ABX test if you have a wife in the adjacent room (for some reason that is usually the kitchen…) that can hear the obvious difference

Just checked my wife and teen daughter and they can't hear any difference.

Strange....