Can you get everyone to like classical music?

[Wombat]

You mean the stuff where the singer is trying his best to sound like a cross between some demon from h-ell and a drill sergeant?
Yea I'll pass on that too.

The genre that proves men can do vocal fry better than women. Go gargle.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

To get people into "classical music", I would recommend buying a large box set of CDs, with as wide a selection of recordings as possible from different historical eras. Then they can switch between them until they find what they like.

So a box set of music arranged historically: It's likely that almost everyone will find at least one style or era that they like.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HISTORY-CLASSICAL-MUSIC-box-set/dp/B00E83QVVM

I must admit, that I find it difficult to put myself in the position of a person who doesn't like classical or jazz music, so I might not be able to see it easily from their point of view. I fell in love with classical music when I was around 4-5 years old and began piano lessons when I was 8.

Without classical (and jazz) music, what is the purpose of a hi-fi system though? (For pop music, most cheaper systems are great to my ears - but a hi-fi system is needed to reproduce acoustic instruments accurately).

 

[Wombat]

To get people into classical music, I would recommend buying a large box set of CDs, with as wide a selection of recordings as possible from different historical eras. Then they can switch between them until they find what they like.

So a box set of music arranged historically:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HISTORY-CLASSICAL-MUSIC-box-set/dp/B00E83QVVM

I must admit, that I find it difficult to put myself in the position of a person who doesn't like classical or jazz music, so I might not be able to see it easily from their point of view. I fell in love with classical music when I was around 3 years old and began piano lessons when I was 8.

Without classical (and jazz) music, what is the purpose of a hi-fi system though? (For pop music, the cheapest system sounds great to my ears).

Why do you think music other than classical and jazz sounds poor on HiFi systems? Do you only listen to 1950s and 1960s vinyl singles?

Such snobbery is all too often proffered by classical music advocates.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Why do you think music other than classical and jazz sounds poor on HiFi systems. Do you only listen to 1950s and 1960s vinyl singles?

Such snobbery is all to often proffered by classical music advocates.

I don't think it sounds poor on hi-fi systems. Rather, I find it usually sounds already fine on cheaper systems, or even on television speakers.

It makes sense that pop music sounds a lot better on hi-fi systems (like everything does), but it still sounds fine on a television. So a hi-fi is optional for most listeners.

On the other hand, hi-fi systems seem more like a requirement (rather than just optional) for listening to classical music and jazz, so that the sound of acoustic instruments and the space around them is reproduced, and it doesn't sound completely unlike the live version of the music.

 

[Sal1950]

On the other hand, hi-fi systems seem more like a requirement (rather than just optional) for listening to classical music and jazz, so that the sound of acoustic instruments and the space around them is reproduced, and it doesn't sound completely unlike the live version of the music.

Why? Hearing the inner detail, the impact of a well played drumset, etc etc etc is just as important for rock as any classical.
Classical sounds just fine to me in it's most heard environment, elevators.
Only point I can find to support your position is that anything that can be done to cement the listeners attention is a big bonus since in general classical music is so boring.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Why? Hearing the inner detail, the impact of a well played drumset, etc etc etc is just as important for rock as any classical.
Classical sounds just fine to me in it's most heard environment, elevators.
Only point I can find to support your position is that anything that can be done to cement the listeners attention is a big bonus since in general classical music is so boring.

Hi-fi will be more necessary for classical music, as reproduction of acoustic instruments is challenging, and the compositions were designed to be heard live. The problem is that reproduced music often sounds very unlike (and far worse than) a live orchestra, or unamplified acoustic instruments.

With pop music, hi-fidelity should often be less of a worry. The music is primarily designed to be reproduced and heard on radio, rather than listened to live, and it also uses mainly electronic instruments.

There isn't the same variation of timbre, there is usually less dynamic range, there is less need to separate instruments spatially, and the audience isn't so accustomed to listening to the composition played live on an acoustic instrument - so a recording will have less of an unflattering comparison than there is in the mind of a classical music audience (who might be thinking about the last time they heard this composition in a concert, or performed it themselves).

Compare for example, reproduction of a digital piano used in a pop song, to Michelangeli's tone on a Debussy prelude. The latter should be a lot more sensitive to differences in reproduction of the sound.

Tl;dr You can enjoy Madonna on ipad speakers, but you won't distinguish Michelangeli piano touch on ipad speakers.

 

[Sal1950]

Hi-fi is more necessary for classical music, as it is reproduction of acoustic instruments which is challenging, and the compositions were designed to be heard live. The problem is that reproduced music often sounds very unlike (and far worse) than live orchestra and a real acoustic instrument.

With pop music, this is often less of a worry. The music is primarily designed to be reproduced and heard on radio, rather than listened to live, and it also uses mainly electronic instruments.

There isn't the same variation of timbre, there is usually less dynamic range, there is less need to separate instruments, and there isn't a "real" live acoustic instrument to compare it to. Compare for example, reproduction of a digital piano used in a pop song, to Michelangeli's tone on Debussy prelude. The latter is a lot more difficult.

That's just more of the classical music snobbery I've heard way too many times. Your above post details how little you actually know about popular music, the experience of hearing it live and it's reproduction in the home. Also you think your music is more important and deserving of accurate, high quality reproduction which is complete bullschitt.
We have nothing more to discuss.

 

[Daverz]

That's just more of the classical music snobbery I've heard way too many times. Your above post details how little you actually know about popular music, the experience of hearing it live and it's reproduction in the home. Also you think your music is more important and deserving of accurate, high quality reproduction which is complete bullschitt.
We have nothing more to discuss.

Everyone who actually cares about music is a snob about the music they like.

 

[Wombat]

Everyone who actually cares about music is a snob about the music they like.

Everyone who actually cares about music is a snob about the music they like.

I am not a snob about music I like. I don't proselytise about genres.

I am happy for others to have their preferences and for me to have mine.

Listening and analysing/comparing minutiae and nuance over the duration of a lengthy performance leaves me cold. Others revel in it. So be it.


'vive la difference'.

 

[paradoxical3]

I deeply love music - including classical music. I consider myself very blessed - while I am not a professional classical pianist, I have been afforded extraordinary opportunities to play classical piano on a high amateur level, culminating with me achieving a dream of performing a movement of Brahms 2nd concerto with the Dallas Ft. Worth Symphony Orchestra.

I think classical music is more complex than most other forms of music, perhaps jazz excepted. But I do not think it is "better" necessarily - good music is good music, regardless of genre. Just like I can analyze certain Beethoven sonatas, I can analyze Dream Theater's Octavarium - a remarkable composition that is well deserving of academic study. Complexity alone does not make one genre of music better than another; I can perform a Rachmaninoff concerto, but would rather listen to Radiohead than Vivaldi (whom I can't stand).

In terms of hi-fi value, classical music to me is usually - but not always - the best recorded. The most demanding test of any system I can find is to play a well recorded concerto. There is nothing else I have found that demands the dynamic range, fortissimo volume capabilities, high SNR (lack of hiss) in the quiet sections, and accurate timbre across all instruments. I am lucky enough to know how it sounds not just from the audience, but from the stage - and let me tell you, there is nothing hi-fi can offer that can compare with being surrounded by the rich strings of Brahm's orchestration from the piano bench.

It is one of my life's regrets that I cannot get everyone to like classical music. I can share a recording of mine that I have spent a year of my life perfecting, and most people will say things like, "that's pretty! You're really good!" They don't understand that it's not "pretty" - it affects me on a physical level to the point where I have to really focus not to cry. I am not sure what causes some to be receptive to classical music and others not - none of my family were musicians, but my mother did make a conscious decision to expose me to music at a young age even though she knew nothing about it.

It kind of sucks - I have to have very compartmentalized friends, and the circle of people I can enjoy this very important thing to me with is exceedingly small.

 

[Wombat]

Others may say the same things about their involvement in different genres.

Requiring approval/affirmation by others is not unusual but not necessary for everyone.

Have you considered that you may have boxed yourself into an expectation-of-others compartment?
'Those who have expectations of others are bound for disappointment' is an old saw.

 

[paradoxical3]

Others may say the same things about their involvement in different genres.

Requiring approval/affirmation by others is not unusual but not necessary for everyone.

I'm not sure what you are implying - my point was that despite the fact I am fairly experienced with classical music I do not find it to be "better" than any other genre (though I do wish more people liked it). Music is not objective.

 

[Wombat]

You regret that others don't like classical music and that you only have a small circle of like minded people to share your interest with.

This happens with all sorts of specific human interest. Do you feel you should adopt those interests of others? I am wondering why you expect others to feel as you do? It seems somewhat self-centric, if not didactic, to me?

Live and let live. Enjoy your interest.

P.S. An old mate of mine has a passion for Nudism. He can't understand why his wife and others don't share his view.

 

[paradoxical3]

You regret that others don't like classical music and that you only have a small circle of like minded people to share your interest with.

This happens with all sorts of specific human interest. Do you feel you should adopt those interests of others? I am wondering why you expect others to feel as you do? It seems somewhat self-centric, if not didactic, to me?

Live and let live. Enjoy your interest.

I don't expect others to feel as I do whatsoever. That doesn't mean I can't personally wish I had more people to share it with.

I think you could do well abiding by your own advice instead of making presumptions on others. After all, you are the one with 4600 posts on a very specific, niche interest forum which is focused around personal, self-centric enjoyment of audio.

 

[paradoxical3]

P.S. An old mate of mine has a passion for Nudism. He can't understand why his wife and others don't share his view.

This is actually fairly appropriate for this thread.

Hint: How many more would appreciate Nudism if they represented the aesthetic ideal of the human forum? More than a few, I'm guessing.

 

[Wombat]

" …. one of my life's regrets is that I cannot get everyone to like classical music"

@paradoxical3, your words.

 

[paradoxical3]

" …. one of my life's regrets is that I cannot get everyone to like classical music"

@paradoxical3, your words.

I'm not seeing "I expect everyone to like classical music" in there, so right back at you.

Another of my life's regrets is that people who get erections at the pedantic visit internet forums. But I'm well aware that will never change - not everyone can represent the aesthetic ideal of self-assurance, the human form - or musical knowledge, for that matter.

 

[Wombat]

I don't expect others to feel as I do whatsoever. That doesn't mean I can't personally wish I had more people to share it with.

I think you could do well abiding by your own advice instead of making presumptions on others. After all, you are the one with 4600 posts on a very specific, niche interest forum which is focused around personal, self-centric enjoyment of audio.

I abide by what I posted. I like what I like re music and don't expect others to agree in order to give me some personal comfort. Nice when it happens but not a big deal.

 

[paradoxical3]

I abide by what I posted. I like what I like re music and don't expect others to agree to give me some personal comfort.

Which is exactly what I said, despite your inability to see it. I was literally validating your right to an opinion in my post - and further, agreeing with it. In your angst, you are choosing to fight a battle that exists only in your mind. Might I suggest listening to some classical music? Some studies have shown it to improve cognitive function.

 

[Wombat]

Which is exactly what I said, despite your inability to see it. I was literally validating your right to an opinion in my post - and further, agreeing with it. In your angst, you are choosing to fight a battle that exists only in your mind. Might I suggest listening to some classical music? Some studies have shown it to improve cognitive function.

Be careful when you tempt others to swap IQs.

Let's end it here or your next reply(last word offer).