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Can you beat my option? KEF LS50 Wireless II + SVS SB-2000 Pro

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Vahidhm

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I've definitely had both good and bad results with Audyssey. The good results have almost always come with limiting correction below 300Hz. Don't think I've ever had a positive full range correction with Audyssey.

Dirac is a bit better and more customizable, so waiting for those Onkyo units may be worthwhile. I've even had good results with Dirac letting it do full range correction on neutral speakers(though I've also had negative results doing that).

YPAO has almost always been negative :D.

I'm also still a big fan of just using REW to generate the filters.

1.Upload the target curve you want in your profile settings
2. Click on the measurement you want to correct, then click "EQ" on the top bar
3. Set the correction type "Full Range"
4. Move the target curve up or down so it best fits your measurements
5. Set the max gain to 0 and allow narrow filters below 200Hz
6. Limit the correction range to what you think works best for your room(generally 200-500Hz)
7. Match filters to target
8. Repeat for the other channel(make sure you set the same target level)
9. Close the window and do File > Export filters > Export Filters as .wav > select stereo > put left on left channel, right on right channel > save

I've had generally really positive results with those settings, but YRMV.

Lots of good information. I have a few questions in this regard. When you export the filters, what are the options to use and implement those filters?
I am assuming the typical method should be load/import them to ROON ? (correct me if I am wrong)
What are the software and hardware alternatives if you don't use roon?
 
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Vahidhm

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It seems that the AVR option have more subjective and non subjective supports compared to my LS50WII choice mostly because of the room correction feature. So, Let me ask a more direct question to confirm that. Which one of these options would have a better results:

1. Denon X3700H [With Audyssey MultEQ XT32] + KEF LS50 meta + SVS SB-2000 Pro
2. LS50 WII + SVS SB-2000 Pro [Manual Parametric EQ up to crossover point through UMIK-1 + REW]

notes:
-I kept the speaker the same to remove the speaker sound quality form the equation. I know that there are better speakers (Active or passive with better value)
- I know that the the Denon AVR has pre outs and I can use a Hypex Nc252 in that system. But It makes the option one considerably higher price so for now that option stays with the AVR 100W amp.
 

raistlin65

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The AVR will only let you use Auro3D if you have *4 height channels, so I wouldn't worry about that.

I do use Auro2D for music with 5.2. I prefer it to DTS and Dolby up mixing of music, when I decide to use it. Which is mostly for live or electronic music.
 

richard12511

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I do use Auro2D for music with 5.2. I prefer it to DTS and Dolby up mixing of music, when I decide to use it. Which is mostly for live or electronic music.

Do you have 4 other speakers lying around? Before I had actual height channels, I was able to trick the AVR into giving me Auro3D by just plugging those in and switching the configuration. Auro3D(in 2D) still sounded much better than those others to my ear. Oddly Auro2D and Auro3D don't really sound similar, and Auro2D isn't configurable like Auro3D is.
 

richard12511

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Lots of good information. I have a few questions in this regard. When you export the filters, what are the options to use and implement those filters?
I am assuming the typical method should be load/import them to ROON ? (correct me if I am wrong)
What are the software and hardware alternatives if you don't use roon?

If you can get a miniDSP 2x4 HD you can plug the file into that. I think you can also use EqualizerAPO if you don't use Roon or JRiver.
 

raistlin65

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Do you have 4 other speakers lying around? Before I had actual height channels, I was able to trick the AVR into giving me Auro3D by just plugging those in and switching the configuration. Auro3D(in 2D) still sounded much better than those others to my ear. Oddly Auro2D and Auro3D don't really sound similar, and Auro2D isn't configurable like Auro3D is.

Good to know. I might have to try that. I'm sure I can find 4 speakers "lying around" my house :)
 

raistlin65

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It seems that the AVR option have more subjective and non subjective supports compared to my LS50WII choice mostly because of the room correction feature. So, Let me ask a more direct question to confirm that. Which one of these options would have a better results:

1. Denon X3700H [With Audyssey MultEQ XT32] + KEF LS50 meta + SVS SB-2000 Pro
2. LS50 WII + SVS SB-2000 Pro [Manual Parametric EQ up to crossover point through UMIK-1 + REW]

notes:
-I kept the speaker the same to remove the speaker sound quality form the equation. I know that there are better speakers (Active or passive with better value)
- I know that the the Denon AVR has pre outs and I can use a Hypex Nc252 in that system. But It makes the option one considerably higher price so for now that option stays with the AVR 100W amp.

You said in your original post that "I'd like to have a good audio quality for movies and video games." If you have not heard a good 3.1 setup and then compared it to how it sounds for 2.1, with movies and games, I would strongly recommend demoing one before settling on a non AVR setup. Be sure to get out of the listener sweetspot seat that crates a phantom center for some of your testing.
 
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Vahidhm

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You said in your original post that "I'd like to have a good audio quality for movies and video games." If you have not heard a good 3.1 setup and then compared it to how it sounds for 2.1, with movies and games, I would strongly recommend demoing one before settling on a non AVR setup. Be sure to get out of the listener sweetspot seat that crates a phantom center for some of your testing.

I don't know how bad the non AVR option would be for movies or how bad the AVR option would be for music and there is not a real way to know that unless I test both in my room. and I think this is the best thing I can go. Get both AVR and Non AVR options and test them for a week or two and keep the one that sounds better.
 

raistlin65

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I don't know how bad the non AVR option would be for movies or how bad the AVR option would be for music and there is not a real way to know that unless I test both in my room. and I think this is the best thing I can go. Get both AVR and Non AVR options and test them for a week or two and keep the one that sounds better.

That's not entirely accurate. You could learn a lot about the potential difference between 3.1 and 2.1 for movie and gaming use by listening to a decent setup in another room. In fact--and this is not meant to be a personal attack--but I don't think you've said much that indicates you really understand what a center channel does and when/why it would be needed. So it could be a very enlightening experience.

Ordering a 3.1 setup and testing it in your room with and without the center channel would be better. You would have to be sure to place the center channel properly.
 
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Vahidhm

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That's not entirely accurate. You could learn a lot about the potential difference between 3.1 and 2.1 for movie and gaming use by listening to a decent setup in another room. In fact--and this is not meant to be a personal attack--but I don't think you've said much that indicates you really understand what a center channel does and when/why it would be needed. So it could be a very enlightening experience.

Ordering a 3.1 setup and testing it in your room with and without the center channel would be better. You would have to be sure to place the center channel properly.

You are right. I don't have enough info about 3.1 systems and honestly don't know much about a center channel rule at all (Other than "It is good for dialogs"). This is all because I mainly focused on music. What I really want to have is a system that shines and gives me the best audio quality experience that I can get with my budget. For the movies this is not the intention. The goal is to just simply have a good audio quality.
 

Chromatischism

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For some time I have wanted Denon to make a box that uses their Audyssey XT32 features but in a 2.1 ch box that fits on a desktop – with all of the same crossover management, EQ, headphone amp, etc. The desktop market is really missing something like that, and it would fit nicely into a 2.1 room use case as well. There are so many compromises we have to make, as evidenced by the OP. That's why I always come back to these AVRs. But if they offered a 2.1 ch box that was a scaled down version of their AVRs that isn't a behemoth and could fit on the desktop that would be fantastic.
 

raistlin65

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You are right. I don't have enough info about 3.1 systems and honestly don't know much about a center channel rule at all (Other than "It is good for dialogs"). This is all because I mainly focused on music. What I really want to have is a system that shines and gives me the best audio quality experience that I can get with my budget. For the movies this is not the intention. The goal is to just simply have a good audio quality.

It depends a lot on where you sit.

The same seating position with stereo that is the sweet spot for music will be the same for movies and gaming.

So if this is a one-person audio set up where you have a specific listening chair optimized with the speakers, you'll be fine.

But much like how the audio quality for music deteriorates as you move off axis from the sweet spot, the same is true for movies and gaming. Among other things, the dialogue can become difficult to understand. And the sound can seem weirdly off positioned from the TV. A good center channel can do a lot to correct those issues.
 

raistlin65

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For some time I have wanted Denon to make a box that uses their Audyssey XT32 features but in a 2.1 ch box that fits on a desktop – with all of the same crossover management, EQ, headphone amp, etc. The desktop market is really missing something like that, and it would fit nicely into a 2.1 room use case as well. There are so many compromises we have to make, as evidenced by the OP. That's why I always come back to these AVRs. But if they offered a 2.1 ch box that was a scaled down version of their AVRs that isn't a behemoth and could fit on the desktop that would be fantastic.

Well, the headphone amp output on AVR's is pretty meh. Not sure we want to duplicate that for building a separate box. lol

MiniDSP 2x4HD could handle the EQ and crossover that you want. Then connect whatever speaker or headphone amp that you want to it.
 

Chromatischism

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Well, the headphone amp output on AVR's is pretty meh. Not sure we want to duplicate that for building a separate box. lol

MiniDSP 2x4HD could handle the EQ and crossover that you want. Then connect whatever speaker or headphone amp that you want to it.
I've never tried it, but presumably the headphone amp would be improved for that market, I would hope. Or, it could be jettisoned out the airlock.

Sure, the MiniDSP could do it. But, it uses IIR filters instead of FIR, and you lose Dynamic EQ, which may be even more important on the desktop since we tend to use lower levels there.

I guess Denon needs to stop gimping their stereo amps on the EQ side and add XT32, shrink the box down by using some Hypex amps like the NC122MP, and you'd be most of the way there.
 
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raistlin65

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I guess Denon needs to stop gimping their stereo amps on the EQ side and add XT32, shrink the box down by using some Hypex amps like the NC122MP, and you'd be most of the way there.

I wouldn't describe it as "gimping." It was a market demand.

As little as even 10 years ago, audiophiles predominantly seem to feel that EQ was this horrible thing that should never be applied to speakers. Especially something automated like Audyssey. And there's still some of those people around today.

Heck, they only recently got around to the idea that it might be okay to put a DAC in a stereo receiver. lol
 
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Vahidhm

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For some time I have wanted Denon to make a box that uses their Audyssey XT32 features but in a 2.1 ch box that fits on a desktop – with all of the same crossover management, EQ, headphone amp, etc. The desktop market is really missing something like that, and it would fit nicely into a 2.1 room use case as well. There are so many compromises we have to make, as evidenced by the OP. That's why I always come back to these AVRs. But if they offered a 2.1 ch box that was a scaled down version of their AVRs that isn't a behemoth and could fit on the desktop that would be fantastic.

Exactly. The new all in one products are basically the answer to that need but because there are not mass market products like AVRs they are quite expensive for what they offer now. I am pretty sure in a few years with more Class D amps dominating the market and better processing technologies for DSPs we will see smaller, smarter and better products with reasonable prices. Also, one of the other issues I have with the AVRs is their size and aesthetics. They don't look like a year 2021 product. The whole design has not changed for a very long time. The new companies and lifestyle products like Sonos and Bluesound Nod are gradually gaining the AVRs market share every year.
 

Chromatischism

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Exactly. The new all in one products are basically the answer to that need but because there are not mass market products like AVRs they are quite expensive for what they offer now. I am pretty sure in a few years with more Class D amps dominating the market and better processing technologies for DSPs we will see smaller, smarter and better products with reasonable prices. Also, one of the other issues I have with the AVRs is their size and aesthetics. They don't look like a year 2021 product. The whole design has not changed for a very long time. The new companies and lifestyle products like Sonos and Bluesound Nod are gradually gaining the AVRs market share every year.
I mean, I don't think AVRs are going to be shrinking as long as we keep adding channel and speaker counts and new features. Eliminating all of those extra channels is what would enable a desktop friendly product, but I don't expect to see that for the home theater market. The products you mentioned, I don't think they compete with that.
 

sfdoddsy

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I’ve owned several pairs of LS50s and used room EQ (Anthem ARC, Audyssey and MiniDSp) to Eq them flat down low.

But I wouldn’t recommend it.

i’d suggest stereo subs crossed over at 150hz or so.

SVS is suitable, but better in my experience would be a pair of Rythmiks
 

NeoZs99

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Hello to you all. I came across this thread searching more or less what OP is asking..Main difference I'm solely going to use my speakers for music.My English ain't so good, apologies for that. I was also wondering about some Genelec 8340 instead of the KEFS and using the SVS sub along.
 
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