Can we trust our ears?

[Julf]

Many people think they’re immune to that. They are wrong, of course.

The wives of some people I know believe their husbands are immune to it...

 

[BDWoody]

Many people think they’re immune to that. They are wrong, of course.

I find it helpful to remind myself, more or less often depending on the day, that half of all people are below average.

Crazy, I know...

 

[Julf]

I find it helpful to remind myself, more or less often depending on the day, that half of all people are below average.

You can't imagine how I got flamed when I posted (on another forum) that half the Americans are below average intelligence...

 

[Willem]

Strictly median rather than average, of course.

 

[BDWoody]

You can't imagine how I got flamed when I posted (on another forum) that half the Americans are below average intelligence...

Not a math forum I'm guessing.

Thinking about how many drivers you encounter in a day on the road... There are a lot of 1%'ers on a busy day.

 

[Julf]

Strictly median rather than average, of course.

I know, but "average" sounds better

 

[NTK]

You can't imagine how I got flamed when I posted (on another forum) that half the Americans are below average intelligence...

Of course you should get flamed! You've confused mean and median

 

[BDWoody]

I know, but "average" sounds better

Given the 'half' semi descriptor/qualifier, I thought median was sufficiently implied, but for the half that might not have gotten it...yes, half of all people are below the median.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Given the 'half' semi descriptor/qualifier, I thought median was sufficiently implied, but for the half that might not have gotten it...yes, half of all people are below the median.

Americans know we are the bestest. So even those Americans below the median aren't below average.

 

[Julf]

Americans know we are the bestest. So even those Americans below the median aren't below average.

 

[j_j]

You can't imagine how I got flamed when I posted (on another forum) that half the Americans are below average intelligence...

Oh, I believe it.

"Free Helsingius"

 

[March Audio]

On another forum recently I was accused of once again claiming audiophiles who here differences in playback software were delusional. I replied I was proclaiming them human. Perhaps they could dispute their humanity if they wished to do so.

JohnYang1997, best I can tell what you've described is at most single blind, and very poorly blinded, and with some sources of variability interfering with results (like removing and replacing the phones). No one likes to point out such things, but until you understand how little it takes to cue in someone doing comparative listening and how easily your own bias effects you, you can't learn the truth on matters. So many think they'll know if they are tricking themselves and it isn't news. It is in fact typical. Hence the knowledge that you need good blinding if you are hearing extremely improbable differences. Yes cables could make a difference in some badly arranged situations. The answer isn't to find the holy grail of cables, the answer is to fix the poor circumstances in design of the gear which is neither difficult nor expensive to do in most cases.

Just reading through this thread.

I think another to consider is that OK perhaps the difference is overtly noticeable. In another forum I have just had a conversation where someone said the difference between a NC400 based amp and an ARC Ref 250 SE was obvious with the ARC "delivered much more", being of the view it was far superior.

I probed a bit and discovered that the test was not blind, was not volume matched and the listening of the 2 amps was conducted on different days! BTW the ARC monoblock costs $32k (AU) each !!!

However I started to look up the ARC amp which I was not familiar with. Whilst I couldnt find detailed measurements, the basic noise and distortion specs indicated it was quite high (its a tube amp). I then found measurements for its smaller brother, the 150. I was shocked to find this.

At just 30 watts

Horrendous distortion and a load dependent frequency response with gross variation. The wobbly one is a speaker load, the rest are resistive.

So I actually have little doubt this ARC 250 sounds different to a neutral high performance class D amp, the reasons are clear. Needless to say that there has been a degree of indigence about what I pointed out, that essentially $64k worth of amps are essentially a load of crap. So obviously the defense then turns to "its not about measurements, its what I find engaging". I suggested that they get a fuzz box and a graphic equaliser. Sell the ARCs and spend the remaining $63k on something actually useful. I especially like the comments about "air around the instruments", well yes thats probably allthe intermodulation distortion that surrounds every note

So if the differences between the cables mentioned are so obvious, then its worth asking if there are any technical reasons that could cause it. That doesnt excuse a lack of testing controls though.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just reading through this thread.

I think another to consider is that OK perhaps the difference is overtly noticeable. In another forum I have just had a conversation where someone said the difference between a NC400 based amp and an ARC Ref 250 SE was obvious with the ARC "delivered much more", being of the view it was far superior.

I probed a bit and discovered that the test was not blind, was not volume matched and the listening of the 2 amps was conducted on different days! BTW the ARC monoblock costs $32k (AU) each !!!

However I started to look up the ARC amp which I was not familiar with. Whilst I couldnt find detailed measurements, the basic noise and distortion specs indicated it was quite high (its a tube amp). I then found measurements for its smaller brother, the 150. I was shocked to find this.

At just 30 watts

View attachment 32634
View attachment 32635

View attachment 32636

Horrendous distortion and a load dependent frequency response with gross variation. The wobbly one is a speaker load, the rest are resistive.

So I actually have little doubt this ARC 250 sounds different to a neutral high performance class D amp, the reasons are clear. Needless to say that there has been a degree of indigence about what I pointed out, that essentially $64k worth of amps are essentially a load of crap. So obviously the defense then turns to "its not about measurements, its what I find engaging". I suggested that they get a fuzz box and a graphic equaliser. Sell the ARCs and spend the remaining $63k on something actually useful. I especially like the comments about "air around the instruments", well yes thats probably allthe intermodulation distortion that surrounds every note

So if the differences between the cables mentioned are so obvious, then its worth asking if there are any technical reasons that could cause it. That doesnt excuse a lack of testing controls though.

But the ARC is a work of audiophile art. It has such bad specs and yet sounds very nice. How can you put a price on art? I mean sure the specs (and maybe the sound) are like those of an updated restored Dynaco Stereo 70, but still.

 

[digicidal]

The wives of some people I know believe their husbands are immune to it...

That's just employing an adaptive noise filter - helpful in small amounts but if you over-do it... it can lead to acute bachelorism.

 

[BillG]

I suggested that they get a fuzz box and a graphic equaliser. Sell the ARCs and spend the remaining $63k on something actually useful.

Hahahaha!

 

[graz_lag]

You can't imagine how I got flamed when I posted (on another forum) that half the Americans are below average intelligence...

So hopefully the intelligent bombs they drop here and there once in a while are build by the other half ? Or maybe not ...

 

[digicidal]

So hopefully the intelligent bombs they drop here and there once in a while are build by the other half ? Or maybe not ...

Most assuredly they are built by those above the mean... the real problem is that the people issuing the orders are usually from the other side of it.

 

[Wombat]

Most assuredly they are built by those above the mean... the real problem is that the people issuing the orders are usually from the other side of it.

 

[Wombat]

Reminds me of:

Military Intelligence - an oxymoron.

 

[Blumlein 88]

What is the saying about fighter aircraft? Designed by guys with PhD's, built by guys with Masters degrees, flown by guys with Bachelors degrees, and maintained by people with GED's.