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Can we trust our ears?
- Thread starter mi-fu
- Start date
Well, now, here we have another of those "it's obvious" claims that you won't subject to any real double-blind test.
I understand you don't care about science. That's ok. If your cables make you happy, fine. But this audible difference, that's a claim to a fact we don't have to accept.
Let me put it this way:
Which two cables?
How was the test DOUBLE blinded?
How long for cable swaps?
What are the controls on this test?
Given what I know of the cables you mention, I suspect:
1) Something might be broken
2) You have some terrible interference or ground loop
3) You IMAGINE you hear a difference
4) Your test blinding has a leak
I'm almost sure of 4, since you refused to answer the question of how the test was DOUBLE blind.
Lol. You are entitled to your opinion. This test is significantly more difficult than ABX where I can ab the candidate myself. In this test I can't know whether he changed or not. I couldn't tell him to switch to a different one to compare.
I said in the post Stock Focal cable and Cardas cable.
Cable swap is about 20 seconds.
He always unplug and plug the cable during trials.
It's not going to be obvious for you. But it's obvious for me.
You are almost sure. Oh well. You are sure....I really feel a little butt hurt right now. Because you are completely wrong but sound like you are right.
Surely the "double" blind test was referring to my friend doesn't know the answer. But my definition is different. My definition is the layer of blindness. As this is more difficult than ABX. Whether he tests it or computer tests it doesn't matter to me. There was no interference what so ever. If it doesn't blind me, who do I not know? That's really funny.
I’m willing to accept those results. As long as they replicate.
Oh ok. I thought it was a different thread.
The following was the post I post in a different thread.
I just did a blind test with my friend using Focal Stellia and cardas and stock cable.
It was a double blind test. Being,
1, I can't see which is which
2, I can't know whether he switched cable or not.
The track I used is Facepalm Mute - Periphery
Results
1, stock correct
2, stock correct
3, cardas correct
4, cardas correct
5, stock correct
During the process I felt like I couldn't hear the difference until the 5th.
The stock has more highs and more open sounding with less congested mids and bass.
The background story. I demoed stellia a few months ago. That time I went to the store by myself. Today I went with my friend. When I hear it, it doesn't sound quite the same than what I remembered. It has cardas cable. I switched back to stock cable I heard the difference. So I let my friend listen to it, also with stock cable. He also thinks the difference is very big. We do both agree the difference is too big to do blind test. But I said I have to do it just to make sure. And here it is. All 5 correct. Big difference. The reason why I thought I couldn't hear the difference was because he only changed once in first four trials. When he changed back to the stock cable again, the difference is big.
How big is the difference then, I would say about +2db around 3khz-6khz. But it doesn't relate to actual measurement of frequency response. It's just perception. It feels like less 500-1000hz and more 3-6khz.
It's a proof that headphone cable and consequently speaker cable do make difference. And it's not really a small difference.
And the procedure is clearly stated in full detail. If I were going to guess at what the "leak" that @j_j hinted at was, it would be timing of the swap. That's almost never controlled in amateur swap-out tests.
ABX is a different test than the test I did. If I can do ABX on this I am sure I can do 100% over 20 trials. In ABX i can switch back and forth as I want. But I don't know whether he changes in each trial.
Unless you're human.
No, you will not know if you caught a clue from something other than sound. That's how all human beings work. Furthermore your test has absolutely no controls built in.
Oh, and yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Some of us are experts who are WAY past being gratuitously insulted by someone who barely ran a test, has too few repeats, said "it was obvious" and THEN said "during the first 4 trials I wasn't sure..."
Make up your mind.
Oh, and yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Some of us are experts who are WAY past being gratuitously insulted by someone who barely ran a test, has too few repeats, said "it was obvious" and THEN said "during the first 4 trials I wasn't sure..."
Make up your mind.
Really? If I use an open cable, I bet I can hear the difference, too. Your conduct, by the way, is rude and inexcusable, and resorting to rhetoric like that makes it pretty clear you don't actually want to know how to run a test.
No, it's just that the way you did it is no way to conduct a test that's going to mean or prove anything to anyone. Insulting true experts may not help either.
Don't pout...
People like you always nitpicking the details that don't matter. Before blind test, you guys like must do blind test. After done test, you guys like the test was faulty. Yeah. Also I didn't like you already from a different thread. I don't care about how you conduct tests or anything.
So, knowing you might have some skepticism, that was the best test methodology you could come up with?
Only thing that could possibly not be good enough is there was only 5 trials.
I didn't know if I was correct or not during the test.
I didn't know if he switched cable during the test.
I covered my ears between trials to not let sound interfere with me.
He unplug and plug cable in each trial.
Interval between each test is about 20 seconds.
Same song first 10 seconds.
I face back to him.
I couldn't touch the headphone during the test.
What else? What else that could be improved if I don't go into using an ADC to record the voltage across the headphones and using ABX software to conduct the test? Seriously.
What I meant was, he doesn't tell me whether he changed. I'm blind to whether he changes. I have to tell myself. In contrast to ABX, which I can listen back and forth the A and B then X.
The difference is very obvious between 4th and 5th trial. That was a instant tell, so I stopped the test.
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