Can we trust our ears?

[Thomas Lund]

Do you have any links you could share to some of the studies you're referring to here?

This list is a few years old, ISBN 978-3-9812830-9-9, pp. 119-122. New studies were added at AES149 panels "Time and Perception" and "Goodbye Stereo part II". For this forum, the distinction between "immersion" and "envelopment" might be of particular interest, with ongoing medical studies about to contribute to a better understanding of the latter.

Anyway, additionally to remaining open to new insight, I agree with Kal about objective measurements always being a foundation. A main sentence in the paper reads "objective criteria, not immune to falsification, and repeatable procedures need to be established". Fortunately, that is also what new tools, often developed to understand pathology, can achieve, e.g. certain ERPs, fMRI, NIRS, fNIRS etc.

 

[andreasmaaan]

This list is a few years old, ISBN 978-3-9812830-9-9, pp. 119-122. New studies were added at AES149 panels "Time and Perception" and "Goodbye Stereo part II". For this forum, the distinction between "immersion" and "envelopment" might be of particular interest, with ongoing medical studies about to contribute to a better understanding of the latter.

Thanks Thomas. So the 30th Tonmeistertatung reference is the references section of your "Slow Listening" paper - is that correct?

It's interesting, but it's a long list and the papers on it that I've read don't describe "new non-invasive research techniques [that] produce an overwhelming amount of data, some of which points to areas for improvement in lossy "perceptual" coders, hearing aids, audio formats, reproduction methods etc".

I know this may come across as lazy But which papers on that list describe these "new research techniques"?

I have the AES 149 program and have found your presentation "Goodbye Stereo Part II" - I presume there is no recording or associated paper available for download from the AES. Is that correct?

I couldn't see "Time and Perception" on the program. Perhaps it's elsewhere? Or perhaps, again, there are related studies that are available elsewhere?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Katji]

"inception dilemma"

Google not helping, results all about "funny pictures". Although dream within a dream within a dream" is enough for a start, I suppose.


Cross-referencing, perhaps useful links: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ing-audio-equipment-quality.11025/post-310740
(If nothing else, such cross-referencing might help to counter the tendency to refer to ears and minimise the psychological/neurological aspect.)

 

[Wes]

You cannot trust your ears if your eyes interfere.

 

[Thomas Lund]

Google not helping, results all about "funny pictures". Although dream within a dream within a dream" is enough for a start, I suppose.

That was convoluted, sorry. It is a term referring to the movie “Inception”, sometimes used to describe the ambiguity of establishing a credible and reliable sensation of one room (recording/mix), mediated by another room (reproduction).

Movement of source and listener, and cross-modal factors, like Wes said, are confounders also, only adding to the dilemma.

 

[Thomas Lund]

Thanks Thomas. So the 30th Tonmeistertatung reference is the references section of your "Slow Listening" paper - is that correct? ... Thanks for your help.

Yes, the TMT paper reference list provides different pieces to the perceptual puzzle from fields not often being considered from a pro audio perspective. My interest rose from reading Karl Küpfmüller and hearing Benjamin Libet lecture, so use them, [52] and [88] as an introduction, then dive into fields that interest you.

References are grouped per category in 3.1-3.6, all fulfilling the inclusion criteria. Read for example [17], [19], [31], [36], [37], [40], [45], [46], [50], [53], [59], [62], [68], [76], [83].

The overarching findings were summarised in Time and Perception. AES excused missing it in the wrap-up but the panel actually kicked-off the convention, https://www.eventscribe.com/2020/AESNY/agenda.asp?pfp=Daily

Videos with sound of both sessions will become available again to members. As for ongoing studies, they have to wait for publication first.

 

[welsh]

Neither compare to some 1970's blotter acid or white powdered mescaline.

1967 Superman! Magic mushrooms from mid-Wales!

 

[Robin L]

1967 Superman! Magic mushrooms from mid-Wales!