Can we trust manufactory specs ?

[gasolin75]

Can we trust specs from manufactorys ?

This is the wharfedale diamond 12.2i not the 12.1i's i also have and not the 12.0i's which i don't have




Specs

WHY this difference ?

Can we trust manufactory specs

wiim ultra room corretcion it does do 50hz mabye flat or less than 3 db but 43hz is not down by 6 db more closer to 10 db (7-8hz difference compared to the 12.1i)

12.1i's

 

[staticV3]

Woofer size in inches usually describes the bolt ring diameter and is only loosely correlated with cone diameter.

 

[mhardy6647]

There are (or at least were - for decades), in the US, EIA standards for the dimensions of drivers.
E.g., for a "12-inch" woofer, the standard EIA dimensions are/were an 11-1/2 inch 'bolt circle':

This is from the technical bulletin for the Electrovoice MC12 'fullrange' (nominally) 12 inch driver.

The Specifications include the decidedly obsolete EIA specification for sensitivity.

Rabbit hole alert!
The EIA spec referenced the SPL at 30 feet for 1 mW of power applied.
Modern sensitivity is usually referenced to 1 W of applied power (i.e., 2.83 VAC into 8 ohm nominal load) for SPL measured at 1 meter.
The EIA sensitivity specs below can be, at least roughly, converted to by adding 49.2 dB (30 dB for the power correction, and 19.2 dB for the distance) to the EIA value.
Thus, the 'modern' spec rating for the decidedly archaic MC12 driver would be 46 + 49.2 = 95.2 dB SPL per input watt @ 1 meter.
Adequate, as Rolls-Royce used to say of their engine horsepower specification.

 

[gasolin75]

85.5db for the old 12.1's the difference is most bass but same drivers and other specs, they are rated at 88db

 

[mhardy6647]

85.5db for the old 12.1's the difference is most bass but same drivers and other specs, they are rated at 88db

View attachment 516622

Speaking of specifications : Note that the reference for Empfindlichkeit above is referenced to 2.83 V input voltage, which is equivalent to 2 watts of power into 4 ohms.
i.e., on an SPL per watt basis, the sensitivity would be expressed as 82.5 dB SPL per watt @ 1 meter.

 

[gasolin75]

wharfedale say Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m)

88dB

6.5" 150mm 6.5" is 165mm and the hole unit towards the silver ring is 150mm +/- a few mm

 

[mhardy6647]

of course!
2.83 V = 1 watt into 8 ohm
2.83 V = 2 watt into 4 ohm
2.83 V = 0.5 watt into 16 ohm
etc.

 

[DanielT]

Many speaker manufacturers, even recognized good ones, have a tendency to exaggerate sensitivity data.Since you @gasolin75 bring up Wharfedale.

Wharfedale Linton 85th:
The manufacturer's stated sensitivity: is 90 dB. Erin measured them to be Sensitivity is about 85dB @ 2.83v/1m.

Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary Speaker Review

Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Erins says in the video below that of all the speakers he has tested, only about 10% are within 1dB-2dB of what the manufacturer states as the speaker's sensitivity.
Klipsch is the worst, but they report in a slightly different way. Check from 5:10 for example. In the graph, Erin reports the manufacturer's information, on a number of speakers, compared to the sensitivity he measured:

Edit:
By the way, I looked now and it doesn't seem Erin noted but Wharfedale states the sensitivity for the Linton 85th be:
Sensitivity (2.0V @1m) 90dB

I don't know why they use 2.0V when they state the sensitivity.

LINTON

To celebrate its history, Wharfedale has established the Heritage Series recreations of famous models from its past, entirely re-engineered using contemporary techniques and materials. The latest loudspeaker to join this collection is the Linton. The original Linton debuted in 1965 and the line...

www.wharfedale.co.uk

 

[gasolin75]

Also klipsch don't have more than 89-91 db on the rp-600m so why rate them at 96db (second version is rated at 94.5db)

Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review. I purchased them from Amazon a couple of weeks ago. The current cost on Amazon is US $629 including Prime shipping. I however found a refurbished one for $450 I think. It looks brand new in the box though...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You just know that 5000 pmpo watt or something like that, for under 200 dollars is BS but why exaggerate so much ?

My room isn't perfect that's why im using room correction and it does alot, meaning it makes alot of adjsutments since it's needed for a better responce and more bass, even that is not making my speakers close to 43 hz at -6 db

 

[Chr1]

Seems there's a fair amount of "fudging" of, even measured data too.

ie. Speaker manufacturers often use extremely smoothed FR graphs.

 

[tineared]

I find Klipsch to be quite capable of making computer speakers and tv sound bars...

 

[DanielT]

Also klipsch don't have more than 89-91 db on the rp-600m so why rate them at 96db (second version is rated at 94.5db)

Because they think it will lead to more sales, of course. Not exactly the first time in world history that a manufacturer has lied.

 

[kemmler3D]

In audio, manufacturer specs are usually fudged as much as they think they can get away with. Naturally this correlates strongly with the sophistication of the target customer.

When you go shopping for a portable "party speaker" from a brand that doesn't expect reviews that corroborate their claims ever, you'll see silly, physically impossible claims like 5000w output from a 12V 3A battery.

When you go shopping for studio monitors from a brand that outfits world class studios the specs probably line up with reality within a few percent.

In between you'll find uncontextualized claims that are kinda true under certain conditions, like portable speakers that do "120dB". It may be possible to get that SPL if you put it in a small reflective room and play a certain tone or band limited noise, etc.

Manufacturer specs should be considered fiction based on fact (loosely or closely) until 3rd parties have verified their claims at least once or twice.

 

[DanielT]

I find Klipsch to be quite capable of making computer speakers and tv sound bars...

The neighbors kids at the summer cottage area took this with them to the beach this summer. Surprisingly good bass considering the size:

Klipsch Detroit Bluetooth Speaker Review: 2 Tweeters. 2 Woofers. And 2 Massives, Size and Sound. - Serious Insights

Klipsch Detroit Bluetooth speaker: Exceptional sound, waterproof, long battery life. Big and heavy but perfect for parties. $299.99.

www.seriousinsights.net

Much better sound than the one we kids had on the beach in the 1980s:

 

[DVDdoug]

Here are a couple of quotes from Floyd Toole:

The bulk of published specifications reveal nothing truly useful... With rare exceptions, consumers and professionals are deprived of useful data and loudspeakers in the marketplace continue to exhibit all possible variations in sound quality.

Consumers have learned that the only way to select loudspeakers is to listen to them because no matter what the oversimplified published specifications say, the resulting sound quality is not predicted.

 

[Berwhale]

Can we trust specs from manufactorys ?

No, and that's why we should be very grateful to people like Amir who measure stuff and publish the results along with the methodology they used to measure the stuff, an explanation of why they measured it this way and any limitations of their approach - That'll be the 'S' in ASR

 

[Emulator II]

Edit:
By the way, I looked now and it doesn't seem Erin noted but Wharfedale states the sensitivity for the Linton 85th be:
Sensitivity (2.0V @1m) 90dB

I don't know why they use 2.0V when they state the sensitivity.

LINTON

To celebrate its history, Wharfedale has established the Heritage Series recreations of famous models from its past, entirely re-engineered using contemporary techniques and materials. The latest loudspeaker to join this collection is the Linton. The original Linton debuted in 1965 and the line...

www.wharfedale.co.uk

That's odd, since the specifications were definitely different when the speaker was released. Here, for example, is an excerpt from a promotional brochure from back then:

I believe it was also stated exactly the same way on the website at the time. I remember how many subjective reviewers praised the high sensitivity according to the data sheet, but then discovered that the speaker really benefits from a powerful amplifier.

Edit: Isn't the sensitivity even higher according to the current specifications? At 2.83V/m, wouldn't that be 93dB, or am I mistaken?

 

[Mnyb]

Driver size can get even more funny with subwoofers as some have a very large and thick surround , to get excursion but cone area diminishes….

It was a similar thing with crt TV what was 28” ? Some bolt holes the mask inside the tube ?

They should spec Sd ? The true cone area . And some well chosen excursion parameter that’s similar between brands .
If they choose to spec these things ?

More interesting is a good set of measurements. There are terrible large drivers and excellent small drivers and anything .

Sometimes manufacturers spec are given without conditions and error bars , making them even more useless as they can’t be compared to something else ?

 

[DanielT]

That's odd, since the specifications were definitely different when the speaker was released. Here, for example, is an excerpt from a promotional brochure from back then:

View attachment 516708
I believe it was also stated exactly the same way on the website at the time. I remember how many subjective reviewers praised the high sensitivity according to the data sheet, but then discovered that the speaker really benefits from a powerful amplifier.

Edit: Isn't the sensitivity even higher according to the current specifications? At 2.83V/m, wouldn't that be 93dB, or am I mistaken?

I looked a little closer now. It looks messy. What Full-range Driver? :

LINTON

To celebrate its history, Wharfedale has established the Heritage Series recreations of famous models from its past, entirely re-engineered using contemporary techniques and materials. The latest loudspeaker to join this collection is the Linton. The original Linton debuted in 1965 and the line...

www.wharfedale.co.uk

I think Wharfedale has mixed something up. Or have I missed something?

 

[Emulator II]

I think Wharfedale has mixed something up. Or have I missed something?

You did (and me too):

They mixed definitely something up.