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Can we talk about bass a little?

klettermann

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As I've posted elsewhere, I've now got a new, wonderful, Dirac-corrected, soundproof listening room. I'm still getting used to it, but am very happy thus far. The most striking improvement has been in the bass. I've got 2 rather unexceptional (but cheap!!!) subs (Heco Aurora 30a's). Speakers are factory hot-rodded Maggie MGIIIa's. I was never unhappy with the Maggie bass, but in hindsight I didn't know what I didn't know. Pre-Dirac, the subs certainly took the low end lower, but not entirely in a good way, mainly cause of room effects. Using REW I got the positioning and sub integration as good as I could and went from ~40hz down to ~20hz, significantly more bass content than I'm used to. But..... still too muddy, too boomy and too poorly defined.

After Dirac the muddiness and boominess was replaced by amazing low end clarity and definition, though still significantly more bass content than I'm used to. On the one hand, I'm hearing information that I ever heard before. And that's great. At the same time the low end is definitely more emphasized than I'm used to. This leads into the subject line. Has anybody else experienced anything like this, i.e., getting used to more low end that just wasn't there before? And how it ought to sound? I'd guess that a civilian, non-audiophile would say that it's bass-heavy. Maybe. Or is it simply that there's LF information that they (or I) never knew existed? Any comments would be very welcome. Thanks and cheers,
 
All the scenarios you listed are possible.

1. There is objectively too much bass or there are lingering bass problems that Dirac has not solved. You may have set the wrong target curve. There is only one way to tell: do a verification measurement.
2. There is objectively sufficient bass but you are not used to hearing it. Or you may have a different preference. Or you might be listening to improperly mastered music.
3. Even if the frequency response looks OK, bass reverb can contribute to the sensation of too much bass. You need to look at the spectro or waterfall.
 
If you think it's too much, you can just turn down the level of the subs?

It's actually just as normal to end up with the opposite result. After a calibration with Dirac or similar systems, the bass can feel too dry or too soft, because one is used to having significant peaks that are now gone. So results may vary.
 
I fuss with my bass levels constantly, or leave it flat. The most useful factor is knowing that each piece of media was tuned by a different person, on a different setup, in a different room. I tend to have a floating low shelf that is adjusted between 1-3dB up or down, and is set to anywhere between 100-300hz.
 
You can shape the curve to your preference, but if you're concerned about losing a neutral sound or getting used to an "off" tone, you might want to experiment with some well-known reference curves and see if one matches your taste.
With Dirac Live in my system, I’ve fine-tuned the curve “blindly” using a selection of familiar music. Interestingly, I ended up with a curve quite similar to the "trained listeners" curve, though with a slightly elevated adjustment in the 2-10 kHz range.

1730789673562.png
 
Thanks for the remarks. To be clear, I'm very happy with the bass. It's actually a major improvement, I'm just unaccustomed to it. It isn't that it's too much, just that it now goes lower with the subs. Before the subs I didn't have much response at all below about 45Hz. The effect of Dirac was to tame it. Now I'm pretty flat to about 22Hz before it starts falling off and it's not all peaks and valleys. Still, I started fooling around with some changes to the bass shelf. It's already apparent that different genres and recordings can benefit from different EQ presets. There will be lots of experimentation and listening. I've just fallen into the rabbit hole and have a very long way to go before hitting bottom. :oops:

As for the subs themselves, I really can't complain. They're quite basic, to be sure. But they were also just US$229 including shipping! Messing around with 2 made a major improvement in reducing modes/null during the positioning process before Dirac. I may even get another, cause why not? Thanks again and cheers,
 
I think it can be surprising once you get subs in the room - you feel like you're already used to hearing "bass" and suddenly there's a lot more bass content in the recording.

My rule of thumb is that (across many recordings) bass guitars and bass drums should not sound noticeably louder than the rest of the mix. Likewise if you do a tone sweep downwards, you shouldn't notice it getting much louder toward the bottom 2 octaves. Measurements aside, It should be subjectively pretty even. If that is not the case, you may have actually jacked up the bass inadvertently.
 
Here's more grist for the mill. The effect of the subs is obviously a lot. In both cases the 74Hz mode is annoying. Same goes for the valley around 225Hz.

Mains + Subs vs Mains Alone
1. Main Listening Position:
2. No EQ or Dirac
3. Violet = main speakers only (no subs).
4. Orange = Mains + subs
1730851308607.png


Below shows the improvement from Dirac. The 74Hz mode was is tamed along with the 225Hz valley. But now there's a new trough around 49Hz, maybe I can fix it manually.
On balance though Dirac made things better, and it was very clearly audible. Obviously I'll keep tweaking it and seeing where it goes. Any interpretations, suggestions or critiques would be great. Thanks and cheers,

Dirac vs No Dirac
1. Main Listening position, mains + subs
2. Blue = Dirac corrected
3. Orange = No Dirac
1730851583591.png

x
x
 
But now there's a new trough around 49Hz, maybe I can fix it manually.
Yes, I would definitely do that.

I can see why you might feel that the bass is overwhelming now.

With the old, less even response, you had the bass (around 40hz) only a few dB above the mids.

Now it looks like it's 5-10dB above the mids, which would be noticeable for sure, and it's in a lower octave.

You might want to add some broad EQ shelving to bring bass, mids and treble more in line, right now you have more than a 10dB drop from lowest to highest octave.

Some people like that amount of tilt, others may not. I would experiment with the overall tilt.
 
Yes, I would definitely do that.

I can see why you might feel that the bass is overwhelming now.

With the old, less even response, you had the bass (around 40hz) only a few dB above the mids.

Now it looks like it's 5-10dB above the mids, which would be noticeable for sure, and it's in a lower octave.

You might want to add some broad EQ shelving to bring bass, mids and treble more in line, right now you have more than a 10dB drop from lowest to highest octave.

Some people like that amount of tilt, others may not. I would experiment with the overall tilt.
Yeah, for sure. I don't think it will be too hard. I haven't even tried to tweak Dirac yet. Then, depending on how that turns out, I've also got a Schiit Loki Max equalizer. It's just 6 bands, so not suited for the very narrow correction but very nice for the broader shelves if i can't do it with Dirac.

Also, fwiw, the bass got turned up like that cause of the subwoofer volumes needed to smooth out the low end. So the EQ is unexpectedly about getting the mid- and high end UP to the low end. I'd have guessed the opposite. Cheers,
 
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