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The total driver cost would be more like $150/pair, a little less if I bought the drivers for you. What kind of bass reach were you looking at?
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The total driver cost would be more like $150/pair, a little less if I bought the drivers for you. What kind of bass reach were you looking at?
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Real men don't use wave guides. And in this case I'm not seeing the issue. Wave guides are generally used to control the dispersion of the tweeter so it matches what is usually the narrower dispersion of the midrange at the crossover point. That wouldn't be the case with the BMR. The dispersion of the tweet and mid should be very similar as is.Go for it, we will cheer you from the sidelines. But if you use a dome tweeter and put it instead of the RAAL, how would you control the dispersion without a waveguide ?
It should be noted that there are several BMR drivers. Some guy named Erin measured the 35.
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/tectonic-elements-tebm35c10-4-miniature-bmr-driver/
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/tectonic-elements-tebm35c10-4-miniature-bmr-driver/
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But only one is usable as a stand-alone. The others have super low sensitivity.
One HiFiCompass measured had terrible dip around 2kHz too:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/tectonic/tectonic-tebm65c20f-8
Don’t see what use case it would be for.
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One HiFiCompass measured had terrible dip around 2kHz too:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/tectonic/tectonic-tebm65c20f-8
Don’t see what use case it would be for.
I don't know this for sure, but based on my experience, it looks like they didn't have it mounted with sufficient damping to control the transition from pistonic to rocking motion starting at 1800 Hz. I ran into the same problem with the good BMR, but was able to control it by making sure the cabinet chamber was completely sealed and stuffed with Eco-Core.
More Dynamics Please
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Looking at all the data sheets on the Tectonic website by far the most sensitive version is the TEBM46C20N-4B rated at 83 dB minimum, 85 dB typical and 86 dB maximum SPL @ 1W, 1m.
D
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Nothing too crazy, my current speaker are the genelec 8030c and the extension is plenty for me, it appears to start rolling off around 60hz or so.
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Right, which is why I use it in the BMR.
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Well, you could use the less expensive black version of the woofer I use in he BMR, and it would go as low with the same box and tuning as the current BMR. That would keep the driver cost below $170/pair. If you want to pursue it, just email me at [email protected].
Nobody is going to agree on the aesthetics, but the graphs are pretty drool-worthy. I’m interested in seeing these fully tested. At this price there wouldn’t seem to be a lot of direct competition.
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Agreed. These are basically full range towers, which is super rare, even for $10,000
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I might be able to get a single unfinished cabinet to Amir. The measurements on my site are for the next towers, due to arrive in a few months. I made a few adjustments in the the crossover to increase sensitivity slightly. I want to get a test crossover board from Bennic first to make sure everything is in spec, and then I could ship Amir my tower with the factory crossover. I wouldn't want anyone with a current tower to ship them anywhere. The cartons and packing materials are more than adequate for a responsible shipper, but not Fed Ex, and probably not UPS.Agreed. These are basically full range towers, which is super rare, even for $10,000
Re BMR with less expensive drivers: I've been playing around with a few ideas to work on in my hopefully-soon retirement. One of them is a 3-way using the BMR and very inexpensive other drivers. Since the use-case would be for multichannel music and Auro 3d upmixing though a Denon X-4700, the efficiency target is around 90 dB after baffle step (there isn't much power available if you are using all 9 channels of amplification).
Drivers: Techtonic TEBM46C20N, Peerless FSL-0615R02 vented 15 liters (Denovo cabinet) f3 78 Hz, Peerless DX25TG59-04 (or BC25TG15-04 if it goes low enough with a resonance comp circuit). I plan on experimenting with the following: 1) a crossover loosely based on a Duelund where the mid level is about 4dB below the woofer and tweeter but sums flat. 2) with and without a shallow modeling clay waveguide on the tweeter. 3) With and without dual chamber reflex. I do not know how much BMR "flavor" the mids would have but the -6dB directivity should be very good. Will need a sub or two. Unfortunately, this will be a lot of work and will have to wait for my retirement.
Drivers: Techtonic TEBM46C20N, Peerless FSL-0615R02 vented 15 liters (Denovo cabinet) f3 78 Hz, Peerless DX25TG59-04 (or BC25TG15-04 if it goes low enough with a resonance comp circuit). I plan on experimenting with the following: 1) a crossover loosely based on a Duelund where the mid level is about 4dB below the woofer and tweeter but sums flat. 2) with and without a shallow modeling clay waveguide on the tweeter. 3) With and without dual chamber reflex. I do not know how much BMR "flavor" the mids would have but the -6dB directivity should be very good. Will need a sub or two. Unfortunately, this will be a lot of work and will have to wait for my retirement.
Am a DIY speaker virgin, but the BMR towers are basically the speakers of my dreams and if something was going to make me take the leap it would be these.
Can someone explain what the heck is going on with these prices, a kit for the monitor is ~$1000 for just the internals and here you are talking about the drivers / internals for $300 for the tower. Is Meniscus Audio putting a 3x markup on the monitor kit for sourcing parts and providing instructions? Or am I missing something else significant (other than the cabinets of course but the kit doesn't include those)
Haha no someone was wanting to diy a cheaper version of the BMR bookshelf since the mid is a relatively cheap driver. This means not using the raal tweeter and using a cheaper version of the woofer. That where the $300 came from.
Colonel7
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A couple months back I modeled similar with the RS180P, not because I think it would be comparable to Dennis but because I'm looking for something with wide dispersion and off-axis and wanted to see what that specific BMR driver is about (and it's fun). I was using the DC28FT b/c I was looking for a small form factor to use in a center channel as well. I'm a newbie with designing the crossover and while the FR looked really good, the impedance was really low (like 3.2) at about 1100 Hz. Any crossover will be complex and not cheap. A 2-way with the same tweeter was about 5.6 ohms. I'm sure I blundered with my initial cut but it's a learning experience. Ultimately it will be a very long-term project and learning by doing is something I value at this point.
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Since the BMR can be crossed above 3k, I would look at a 3/4" dome. Dayton has a couple and SB has one. For the woofers, again Dayton or SB has some inexpensive options. It would be interesting to see an updated version of the Dennis designed Dayton RS TMWW. I thought it was better than my PSB Stratus Golds. Using the Dayton reference 225 woofers with a Dayton or SB 3/4" dome shouldn't be that expensive.
But real men do use real midrange drivers and not just seriously inefficient beepers. Sorry for that!
I know they have different purposes.
Certainly it is true that the justification for a waveguide is vastly weaker for a three-way speaker vs. a two-way speaker. There are always different perspectives for anything. When I first encountered the notion of "tweeter flare" in some speaker review in Stereophile a number of years ago, it annoyed me, because to me it seemed like a way of spinning the true underlying problem, which is the larger driver's loss of dispersion at the upper end of the range where it is being used. It comes down to the question of whether you want a speaker with narrow directivity vs. wide directivity. I don't like speakers that are noticeably louder for someone seated directly on-axis compared to someone seated 60 degrees off-axis and somewhat closer to the speaker. For anyone who prefers broader dispersion compared to what many modern speakers provide, the way to achieve this is not with a two-way speaker that uses a waveguide on the tweeter. So far as I've been able to identify, the only good way to achieve a smooth off-axis response without paying for it with excessively narrow directivity is with a three-way design.
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