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Can we discuss the BMR Tower?

JEarle

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892DD311-9CE5-459C-B184-39597ABE96C2.jpeg
 

Jdunk54nl

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Loving the BMR towers after just one day with them!
IMG_3418.JPG
 

Jdunk54nl

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Are those 18” subs? Where do you cross them with the towers?
They are 18" stereo integrity ht-18's and usually cross everything around 80hz.
 

birkbott

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They are 18" stereo integrity ht-18's and usually cross everything around 80hz.
I bet that room thumps.

I just got the BMR monitors and I have them crossed at 80hz with my 12” servo subs.

This might sound like a snarky question but I’m curious, why get the towers if you’re gonna high pass them with subs anyway?
 

Steve Dallas

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I bet that room thumps.

I just got the BMR monitors and I have them crossed at 80hz with my 12” servo subs.

This might sound like a snarky question but I’m curious, why get the towers if you’re gonna high pass them with subs anyway?
Why get the V12 when an I4 will get you to work and back?

Love the vertical BMR center, @Jdunk54nl. You might want to explore tilting it back, considering ribbons have limited vertical dispersion. Very jealous of your setup. I am trying to figure out something similar for my media room that would allow me to run a vertical center in limited space.
 

Jdunk54nl

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I bet that room thumps.

I just got the BMR monitors and I have them crossed at 80hz with my 12” servo subs.

This might sound like a snarky question but I’m curious, why get the towers if you’re gonna high pass them with subs anyway?

A few reasons, the biggest being if I just got all monitors, I'd always wonder if the towers would have been better.

Usually better dynamics with towers.
Stands take up just as much space and by the time you factor in good ones, is it really worth the savings.

Sturdiness of the towers, we will be having kids semi soon, so don't want speakers falling over.
 

Jdunk54nl

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Why get the V12 when an I4 will get you to work and back?

Love the vertical BMR center, @Jdunk54nl. You might want to explore tilting it back, considering ribbons have limited vertical dispersion. Very jealous of your setup. I am trying to figure out something similar for my media room that would allow me to run a vertical center in limited space.

In our sitting position, the worst case has the ribbon about 2.5 degrees below ear axis.
When reclined it's less than 1 degree.
I may still play some, but not too worried. The bmr should be about +/- 10-15 degrees.
 

Keened

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I wonder if he'll consider doing an 'ASR Special' version of the BMR line. One where it is a 'passive DSP'/Semi-Active Speaker, by making the assumption they will be used with at least one subwoofer.

I like the dual BMR drivers of the tower (and the Mass-Loaded Transmission design), but it seems like a waste to try to punch all way down to 40hz. I'd rather see the monitors upgraded to have dual BMRs and a front port and aim for a +/-1DB to 60hz. Then you could mount it on the wall (using an arm to hold it just an inch or two out) and make up for the low end to taste using subwoofer separates.

Having skimmed the thread it looks like Phil thinks that the low end is pretty much entirely dominated by room modes anyways so trying to have fully controlled extension that low comes at extra costs in the design and/or is beyond the scope what a passive speaker can really be expected to do; So lets not leave it as a passive speaker. The Flex exists and is pretty affordable and lots of AVRs offer subwoofer management to some degree.

It would also neatly slot into the pricing range:

AA Monitors: $
DIY BMR Monitors: $.5
Square BMR: $$
Curved BMR: $$.5
Semi-Active BMR: $$$
Semi-Active curved BMR: $$$.5
Tower BMR: $$$$
Curved Tower BMR: $$$$.5

This would also let those of us who have sound containment issues push the volume up on the stuff that is easier to muffle and freely adjust the lowest end without compromising the upper range.
 

Steve Dallas

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I wonder if he'll consider doing an 'ASR Special' version of the BMR line. One where it is a 'passive DSP'/Semi-Active Speaker, by making the assumption they will be used with at least one subwoofer.

I like the dual BMR drivers of the tower (and the Mass-Loaded Transmission design), but it seems like a waste to try to punch all way down to 40hz. I'd rather see the monitors upgraded to have dual BMRs and a front port and aim for a +/-1DB to 60hz. Then you could mount it on the wall (using an arm to hold it just an inch or two out) and make up for the low end to taste using subwoofer separates.

Having skimmed the thread it looks like Phil thinks that the low end is pretty much entirely dominated by room modes anyways so trying to have fully controlled extension that low comes at extra costs in the design and/or is beyond the scope what a passive speaker can really be expected to do; So lets not leave it as a passive speaker. The Flex exists and is pretty affordable and lots of AVRs offer subwoofer management to some degree.

It would also neatly slot into the pricing range:

AA Monitors: $
DIY BMR Monitors: $.5
Square BMR: $$
Curved BMR: $$.5
Semi-Active BMR: $$$
Semi-Active curved BMR: $$$.5
Tower BMR: $$$$
Curved Tower BMR: $$$$.5

This would also let those of us who have sound containment issues push the volume up on the stuff that is easier to muffle and freely adjust the lowest end without compromising the upper range.

Dual BMRs and a front port would make an already tall standmount speaker VERY tall--as tall as a small floorstander. It would not fit any commercially available stand. Wall mounting a deep speaker makes SBIR as bad as it can possibly be, so almost no one will want to do that.

Then, in a cabinet that large, why not shoot for the deep bass of ~30Hz? It would be silly not to. Reaching near 30Hz LF extension means mid-20s in-room, which means subs are not needed for most music.

F3 of my square BMRs is ~27Hz. I do not have room for subs in this room. BMRs are about as good as it can get in my environment.

BMR Stereo Dirac to 1250Hz.png


OTOH, if cabinet volume were significantly reduced by making it as shallow as possible, SBIR is improved, and bass extension is reduced, so you could theoretically get your wish. The BMR's horizontal directivity pattern may make it a good candidate for wall mounting in a shallower configuration. Yet, as we have seen in pretty much every other attempt, it would still be a very compromised design.
 
Last edited:

alexis

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I wonder if he'll consider doing an 'ASR Special' version of the BMR line. One where it is a 'passive DSP'/Semi-Active Speaker, by making the assumption they will be used with at least one subwoofer.

I like the dual BMR drivers of the tower (and the Mass-Loaded Transmission design), but it seems like a waste to try to punch all way down to 40hz. I'd rather see the monitors upgraded to have dual BMRs and a front port and aim for a +/-1DB to 60hz. Then you could mount it on the wall (using an arm to hold it just an inch or two out) and make up for the low end to taste using subwoofer separates.

Having skimmed the thread it looks like Phil thinks that the low end is pretty much entirely dominated by room modes anyways so trying to have fully controlled extension that low comes at extra costs in the design and/or is beyond the scope what a passive speaker can really be expected to do; So lets not leave it as a passive speaker. The Flex exists and is pretty affordable and lots of AVRs offer subwoofer management to some degree.

It would also neatly slot into the pricing range:

AA Monitors: $
DIY BMR Monitors: $.5
Square BMR: $$
Curved BMR: $$.5
Semi-Active BMR: $$$
Semi-Active curved BMR: $$$.5
Tower BMR: $$$$
Curved Tower BMR: $$$$.5

This would also let those of us who have sound containment issues push the volume up on the stuff that is easier to muffle and freely adjust the lowest end without compromising the upper range.
That's a very good pricing layout. We would need to at least double or triple the BMR sale volume to consider different varieties. Creating a model and running production is challenging. The price gap between BMR and BMR Tower doesn't have that much room.
 

Keened

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Dual BMRs and a front port would make an already tall standmount speaker VERY tall--as tall as a small floorstander. It would not fit any commercially available stand. Wall mounting a deep speaker makes SBIR as bad as it can possibly be, so almost no one will want to do that[...]


OTOH, if cabinet volume were significantly reduced by making it as shallow as possible, SBIR is improved, and bass extension is reduced, so you could theoretically get your wish. The BMR's horizontal directivity pattern may make it a good candidate for wall mounting in a shallower configuration. Yet, as we have seen in pretty much every other attempt, it would still be a very compromised design.

Maybe drop the round port for a slot port then? The higher you stay, the less air has to be displaced by the cone so you don't need as much surface area. If you're already assuming the signal is high passed/there is a brickwall in the cross over by default then you can guarantee you won't get sufficient energy in the problematic range for port chuffing (I think?).

The overall depth is a problem, but this is intended to be used with DSP to help tame those kinds of issues. According to the Genelec example
monitorplacement_backwall.jpg


There is a lot of depth that can be used and still be alright. But if we're not digging so deep we don't need all of the cabinet depth either from what I understand so a shallower version would work. Might even lend itself to a WMTMW center piece some day.

That's a very good pricing layout. We would need to at least double or triple the BMR sale volume to consider different varieties. Creating a model and running production is challenging. The price gap between BMR and BMR Tower doesn't have that much room.

That's perfectly understandable. I keep finding myself coming back to the BMR as I think of the future, but I also am becoming more aware that the speakers might need to be wall mounted and the rear port makes that awfully difficult.
 

TurtlePaul

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Thats an amazing result!. Is this a typical home scenario or a "padded" studio? Curious (maybe jealous) as to how it was achieved?
It looks like REW with full range auto EQ. The questions become: how many dB he has to lose in the preamp to get that response, how the response is away from the main listening position, and if the flattened response is the right mix of direct and reflected sound (which is hard to measure in REW).
 

Steve Dallas

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It looks like REW with full range auto EQ. The questions become: how many dB he has to lose in the preamp to get that response, how the response is away from the main listening position, and if the flattened response is the right mix of direct and reflected sound (which is hard to measure in REW).
Looks like FIR filters in use to me. I'm betting something like Acourate or Audiolense or possibly Dirac.
 
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