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Can this works? 3.5mm to 2.5mm

wsdc

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Hi, not very tech savvy so just need to seek your knowledge on this: Can I use a 3,5mm to 2,5mm adapter so I can use a 3.5mm cable to connect to balance out? thanks for sharing...….
 

solderdude

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You can convert a NON balanced 3.5mm TRS or 6.35mm TRS jack or even 2.5mm TRS jack from a headphone amp/source so it can be connected to a balanced headphone. That balanced headphone thus must have iether a 5pin-Pentaconn or 2.5mm TRRS or 4-pin XLR or dual 3-pin XLR connector.

You can NOT connect/convert a 3.5mm TRS or 6.35mm TRS jack or even 2.5mm TRS jack or 3.5mm TRRS headphone jack to a balanced amplifier/output.

So:
Unbalanced output to balanced headphone via converter = YES
Balanced output (2.5mm TRRS, Pentaconn or XLR4 or 2x3-pin XLR or 2x TS jack) to headphones fitted with a 3 -pin jack plug = NO......
Not even when you can find an adapter that says, or you may suspect it will. Do NOT use them you MAY damage your balanced source.

Note:
Also headphones with a 4-pin TRRS 3.5mm jack are NOT balanced. The second ring is for remote/mic.
A 4-pin 2.5mm TRRS jack is usually balanced.

NO single ended (3 pin) headphone can be connected to a balanced output.
 
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Doodski

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You would need to rewire the headphones right from the transducers to the jack-plug-connector. Just buy the proper headphones if you want balanced.
 
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wsdc

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You can convert a NON balanced 3.5mm TRS or 6.35mm TRS jack or even 2.5mm TRS jack from a headphone amp/source so it can be connected to a balanced headphone. That balanced headphone thus must have iether a 5pin-Pentaconn or 2.5mm TRRS or 4-pin XLR or dual 3-pin XLR connector.

You can NOT connect/convert a 3.5mm TRS or 6.35mm TRS jack or even 2.5mm TRS jack or 3.5mm TRRS headphone jack to a balanced amplifier/output.

So:
Unbalanced output to balanced headphone via converter = YES
Balanced output (2.5mm TRRS, Pentaconn or XLR4 or 2x3-pin XLR or 2x TS jack) to headphones fitted with a 3 -pin jack plug = NO......
Not even when you can find an adapter that says, or you may suspect it will. Do NOT use them you MAY damage your balanced source.

Note:
Also headphones with a 4-pin TRRS 3.5mm jack are NOT balanced. The second ring is for remote/mic.
A 4-pin 2.5mm TRRS jack is usually balanced.

NO single ended (3 pin) headphone can be connected to a balanced output.
Sorry, just to be sure I'm using a 3.5mm cable then using a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter connect to a dap 2.5mm balance output. Will it work or will damage the dap? Thanks
 

maxxevv

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Sorry, just to be sure I'm using a 3.5mm cable then using a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter connect to a dap 2.5mm balance output. Will it work or will damage the dap? Thanks

Short answer : NO.

If its the other way round of a balanced 2.5mm cable into a single-ended jack, then it will work fine.
 

solderdude

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Sorry, just to be sure I'm using a 3.5mm cable then using a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter connect to a dap 2.5mm balance output. Will it work or will damage the dap? Thanks

It will not work and potentially could damage the DAP.
When the DAP has proper current limiting shorting the output (one basically shorts the L and R negative outputs) may not do any damage but could.
Let's just say I do NOT recommend this and is technically very wrong.
 
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wsdc

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Thank you all for clearing this up. You guys are the best.
 

ilianto

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Hey guys. I've read this thread a couple of times to get it right but I would still like some help if possible. I know you can't just put an adapter to a 3.5mm single ended jack and make it balanced but... I have the Nighthawk carbons with the newer cable which has a 3.5mm jack and it's a trrs with three rings. The designer had also stated in the Nighthawk forum that the cable is balanced so maybe it can be done in this instance or is it still a no no?
 

solderdude

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That 3rd ring is for a mic/remote function (in the cable).
3.5mm TRRS are usually not used for balanced connections. Of course there may be a manufacturer (mis)using it this way.

Note that there are basically 2 variants in TRRS wiring.


OMTP standard:
Tip = Left
Ring = Right
Ring 2 = mic/remote
Sleeve = Ground/common

and

CTIA standard (Apple):
Tip = Left
Ring = Right
Ring 2 = Ground/common
Sleeve = mic/remote

Because of this such a cable may not work well on all gear and also may not work well on TRS sockets (depending on where the sleeve contact is)
 

ilianto

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That 3rd ring is for a mic/remote function (in the cable).
3.5mm TRRS are usually not used for balanced connections. Of course there may be a manufacturer (mis)using it this way.

Note that there are basically 2 variants in TRRS wiring.

Tip = Left
Ring = Right
Ring 2 = mic/remote
Sleeve = Ground/common

and

Tip = Left
Ring = Right
Ring 2 = Ground/common
Sleeve = mic/remote

Because of this such a cable may not work well on all gear and also may not work well on TRS sockets (depending on where the sleeve contact is)
Thanks. So it's basically a gamble whether it works or it burns my dac, right?
 

solderdude

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For 3.5mm TRS vs TRRS it doesn't. The headphone may not sound as it should and or the mic/remote may not work well or at all.

Using a 3.5mm TRS plug to 2.5mm TRRS plug converter is likely to short the 2.5mm TRRS source's amp. When properly designed nothing will be destroyed but not all gear is properly designed (short resistant on the output).

This is why the 4.4mm Pentaconn is such a good idea. It is small, it supports balanced and SE connections and even shielded balanced interlinks.
But... here too, in the end it is the manufacturer of the cable+device that should wire it up correctly.
A 4.4mm to 6.3/3.5 TRS conversion cable (so 6.3/3.5 mm socket and 4.4mm plug) can still be wired incorrectly and short the 2 of the 4 balanced outputs.
 

ilianto

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For 3.5mm TRS vs TRRS it doesn't. The headphone may not sound as it should and or the mic/remote may not work well or at all.

Using a 3.5mm TRS plug to 2.5mm TRRS plug converter is likely to short the 2.5mm TRRS source's amp. When properly designed nothing will be destroyed but not all gear is properly designed (short resistant on the output).
I am confused now. My jack is 3.5 trrs and the cable is supposedly wired balanced. Would a 3.5 trrs to 2.5 trrs work? For sound at least. I don't care about the mic working.
 

solderdude

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The question is how do you know the 3.5mm TRRS is balanced and since there is no 'standard' for that what L+, L-, R+ and R- are connected to on the 3.5mm TRRS jack how would one know what converter to use ?

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10053634.png
 

ilianto

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That's why I said it's a gamble yes, cause I don't know how the jack is wired. Thanks man. Better search for a nice cable.
 

Ivan Ferdinand

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You can convert a NON balanced 3.5mm TRS or 6.35mm TRS jack or even 2.5mm TRS jack from a headphone amp/source so it can be connected to a balanced headphone. That balanced headphone thus must have iether a 5pin-Pentaconn or 2.5mm TRRS or 4-pin XLR or dual 3-pin XLR connector.

You can NOT connect/convert a 3.5mm TRS or 6.35mm TRS jack or even 2.5mm TRS jack or 3.5mm TRRS headphone jack to a balanced amplifier/output.

So:
Unbalanced output to balanced headphone via converter = YES
Balanced output (2.5mm TRRS, Pentaconn or XLR4 or 2x3-pin XLR or 2x TS jack) to headphones fitted with a 3 -pin jack plug = NO......
Not even when you can find an adapter that says, or you may suspect it will. Do NOT use them you MAY damage your balanced source.

Note:
Also headphones with a 4-pin TRRS 3.5mm jack are NOT balanced. The second ring is for remote/mic.
A 4-pin 2.5mm TRRS jack is usually balanced.

NO single ended (3 pin) headphone can be connected to a balanced output.
Hello sir, sorry for replying this old comment. But may i ask about the 2.5mm TRRS? if the 2.5mm TRRS is balanced as you say, is it stereo or mono? As far is a know balanced stereo is only TRRRS not TRRS. So can be a TRRS be a balanced stereo? Because i see on the market so many brands sell 2.5mm TRRS cables/plug. For example https://www.linsoul.com/products/7hz-thunderbirds and https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-4-pole-2-5mm-trrs-balanced-connector.html
Thank you.
 

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solderdude

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Hello sir, sorry for replying this old comment. But may i ask about the 2.5mm TRRS? if the 2.5mm TRRS is balanced as you say, is it stereo or mono?
It is stereo.
For a balanced (headphone) connection you just need 4 contacts, regardless what they look like in practice and each letter in TRRS is nothing more than a simple contact.

As far is a know balanced stereo is only TRRRS not TRRS
TRRRS (Pentaconn 4.4mm) allows for balanced AND regular connections AND even shielded balanced interlink connections (in 2 Channel).
For a universal cable to work properly you need 4 wires and 1 shield (for headphones this shield could also be a single wire)
 
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Hayabusa

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NO single ended (3 pin) headphone can be connected to a balanced output.
connect the plus of the headphone to plus of the balanced out via a dc blocking capacitor and connect ground to ground. That should work isn't it?

edit: Ah I see now that the 4 pin output has no ground...
 

solderdude

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Indeed it would not work as you would still be shorting L- and R-.
For AC signals a DC blocking cap is basically a short except for the lowest frequencies.
 
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