Can this Test actually answer the title of the video - Do all CD player sound the same?

[SineWave]

I don't think so.

I have the video queued (5:57) to the questions the listeners will be asked to determine the answer.
But later, at 18:17, it does get a little interesting.

 

[Jmudrick]

I don't think so.

I have the video queued (5:57) to the questions the listeners will be asked to determine the answer.
But later, at 18:17, it does get a little interesting.

To be clear the question asked was do all CD transports sound the same.

 

[SineWave]

To be clear the question asked was do all CD transports sound the same.

No, the question in the title of the video and where I had it queued was not asking about the transport at all.

But yes, at 18:17 it does answer another question, about transports.

 

[krabapple]

From what I can tell, this was a multiway test for preference, done blind and level-matched (though how well levels were matched was not detailed )....but without first having tested whether difference was significant...whether the listeners could reliably identify A and B. Players were plugged into multiple analog inputs of a preamp and were purportedly started simultaneously from a remote (except in the cases where they weren't). Later they were also used as transports into a 'modern DAC'.

A silly, inconclusive waste of time presenting itself as serious.

 

[dedobot]

Low entry to mid level players 1992-2004 , they definitely sounds different.

 

[SIY]

Low entry to mid level players 1992-2004 , they definitely sounds different.

Any evidence for that? I mean, if it's "definitely," surely you or someone else has demonstrated this in an actual listening test.

This video is no more than more evidence added to a huge pile that if you have no clue how to set up a controlled test, you can get any result you like. But you can make videos and get clicks. Whoop de do.

 

[Chrispy]

Low entry to mid level players 1992-2004 , they definitely sounds different.

Really?

 

[dedobot]

Any evidence for that? I mean, if it's "definitely," surely you or someone else has demonstrated this in an actual listening test.

This video is no more than more evidence added to a huge pile that if you have no clue how to set up a controlled test, you can get any result you like. But you can make videos and get clicks. Whoop de do.

During Covid I played with 4-5 old cd players . 1995-2003 produced. They really differed at basic - more treble, more bass etc.. Maybe couse they was old and worn, I don't now.

 

[Chrispy]

During Covid I played with 4-5 old cd players . 1995-2003 produced. They really differed at basic - more treble, more bass etc.. Maybe couse they was old and worn, I don't now.

That's a pretty far cry from your definitive statement a few posts ago. I'll go with the you don't know part....

 

[sq225917]

Null test them

 

[SIY]

During Covid I played with 4-5 old cd players . 1995-2003 produced. They really differed at basic - more treble, more bass etc.. Maybe couse they was old and worn, I don't now.

So no actual controls. That definitely falls short of "definitely."

 

[dedobot]

So no actual controls. That definitely falls short of "definitely."

What's wrong with sound of an Phillips cd 1994 differs Sony player 2000 year ? Both in price range of 250$ . We're speaking analog outputs ,yes ? The Sony player have volume attenuation, Phillips don't.

 

[SIY]

What's wrong with sound of an Phillips cd 1994 differs Sony player 2000 year ? Both in price range of 250$ . We're speaking analog outputs ,yes ? The Sony player have volume attenuation, Phillips don't.

So? Level match, compare double blind, then maybe you have something to talk about.

 

[Blumlein 88]

What's wrong with sound of an Phillips cd 1994 differs Sony player 2000 year ? Both in price range of 250$ . We're speaking analog outputs ,yes ? The Sony player have volume attenuation, Phillips don't.

Some Philips did have volume control back then. It was lousy 16 bit undithered digital if I recall, but some did have it.

 

[DVDdoug]

Some Philips did have volume control back then. It was lousy 16 bit undithered digital if I recall, but some did have it.

You're ONLY supposed to dither when you downsample. You aren't downsampling when you play a CD.

Modern studio recordings are made at 24/96 and normally dithered when converted to CD quality. ...Before the CD is made, not when it's played. But we usually don't know the details of how the CD was produced and nobody is going to listen to a CD and say "they forgot to dither" or "they used the wrong dither".

And since quantization noise is more than 90dB down, and dither noise (which is supposed to "sound better") is a little "worse" and also about 90dB down, you can't hear dither, or the lack of dither, under normal-realistic listening conditions. (Shoutometer)

I've never bothered with ABX tests or any critical comparison but my 1st CD player sounded GREAT to me... Way better than the turntable it replaced. I never heard any defects and I never heard one that sounded "better" (or even different).

 

[jasonhanjk]

The dac are different, some dac requires additional low pass filter so that will effect the sound.
Then you have the output driving stage at the line out, some cd player even uses discrete circuit.

 

[Blumlein 88]

You're ONLY supposed to dither when you downsample. You aren't downsampling when you play a CD.

Modern studio recordings are made at 24/96 and normally dithered when converted to CD quality. ...Before the CD is made, not when it's played. But we usually don't know the details of how the CD was produced and nobody is going to listen to a CD and say "they forgot to dither" or "they used the wrong dither".

And since quantization noise is more than 90dB down, and dither noise (which is supposed to "sound better") is a little "worse" and also about 90dB down, you can't hear dither, or the lack of dither, under normal-realistic listening conditions. (Shoutometer)

I've never bothered with ABX tests or any critical comparison but my 1st CD player sounded GREAT to me... Way better than the turntable it replaced. I never heard any defects and I never heard one that sounded "better" (or even different).

The issue is without dither you do lose resolution. With only 16 bit significant level reductions do put you into some restrictive dynamic ranges. I seem to recall it would do up to 48 db level reduction. That is putting you into 8 bit territory. It was apparent because my friend who owned it used a tube amp with 29 db of gain and K-horns. At first he thought great, I can skip the pre-amp, but the pre had to go back in the system with the CD player on max.

 

[DVDdoug]

he issue is without dither you do lose resolution. With only 16 bit significant level reductions do put you into some restrictive dynamic ranges. I seem to recall it would do up to 48 db level reduction. That is putting you into 8 bit territory.

That's true. With 48dB of of digital attenuation you are only using 8-bits. Dither may "help" but you don't really get the resolution back. What "saves us" is that the noise (or dither) is still about 90dB and inaudible unless you re-amplify. Attenuating in analog and reamplifying also worsens the signal-to-noise ratio.

P.S.
I wouldn't say ALL CD players sound the same, because some may be poorly made, broken, or defective.

 

[dlaloum]

Remember doing a lot of comparison back in the 1st generation of CD player days circa 1984/85/86

And differing players definitely sounded different - but it was by no means at the order of magnitude of turntables and cassette decks (the other main sources of that time)

Things got better later on - but the best of the 1st generation are competitive with stuff being made now...

 

[Blumlein 88]

That's true. With 48dB of of digital attenuation you are only using 8-bits. Dither may "help" but you don't really get the resolution back. What "saves us" is that the noise (or dither) is still about 90dB and inaudible unless you re-amplify. Attenuating in analog and reamplifying also worsens the signal-to-noise ratio.

P.S.
I wouldn't say ALL CD players sound the same, because some may be poorly made, broken, or defective.

Yes, this was my friend's 1st CD player and he was using his own pre and power amp. The power amp was his own OTL design with crazy regulated supplies. 10 watts and very low noise. He in time just lowered the power amp gain for CD player use in the future, but he did avoid digital volume sticking with his preamp.