Can op amps now be as good as discrete circuitry?

[RoA]

Discrete circuits are custom built by Burson for specific applications rather than an op-amp's jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none specifications. The art of circuit design yields superior sound in every way in comparison to simple plug-a-chip engineering.10 Jul 2024

 

[somebodyelse]

Most of the best measuring equipment we've seen here uses op-amps for line level signals and phono stages. Some discrete implementations have similar performance. The art of circuit design applies just as much to op-amp use as it does to discrete components.

 

[Multicore]

Such an odd thing to accuse an op amp's spec sheet of being: a jack of all trades. What are resistors, I wonder ... unskilled workers?

 

[mhardy6647]

I assume that the OP (no pun intended ) is asking whether integrated circuit operational amplifiers can be as good as operational amplifiers built using discrete circuitry?
Vacuum tube op amps FTW!

Discrete operational amplifers with vacuum tube active components were the heart and soul of analog computers for many years.
I actually had one of these big Heathkits for several years -- although I never really learned how to use it for anything useful.
In some respects, I wish I had kept it -- but it was very large and very heavy.

 

[RoA]

I guess it may be easier these days to introduce specific traits with a discrete design if the designer wishes so? I would also assume that op amp manufacturers aim for good specs which may not always is what ... .

If so I would agree with Burson's first sentence but not necessarily with the second one.

 

[danadam]

10 Jul 2024

What's the significance of this date?

 

[DSJR]

May I politely suggest that chip-type op-amps have been superior generally to equivalent discrete circuits for MANY DECADES now. May I also suggest that discrete circuits are only really majored on as 'superior,' in the slow-to-change 'dinosaur' domestic audio markets, the rest of the electronics industry having moved on many years ago.

Schiit's Jason knows how good/better chips can be, but insists on designing his own sometimes wild discrete circuits either because he can, knowing they'll sell to the fans, or to give himself a real challenge because chip op-amps are so boring and 'me too,' which is a vibe I think I understand...

 

[Unbalanced]

Integrated circuits are just standard combinations of discrete components mass produced to what I expect are tighter tolerances.

I recall reading somewhere that back in the 70s and 80s the better manufacturers would go through their supply of discrete components to get units that were matched thinking transistors etc. I wondered how large the effect of unmatched components would be that this would be worthwhile?

 

[SIY]

Discrete circuits are custom built by Burson for specific applications rather than an op-amp's jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none specifications. The art of circuit design yields superior sound in every way in comparison to simple plug-a-chip engineering.10 Jul 2024

Better. Burson is selling FUD.

 

[audio_tony]

OPAMP ICs are superior to discrete OPAMPS in every way.

Reason being, because the semiconductors are on the same substrate, they are always perfectly matched. Temperature variations are also consistent across all parts because again, they are on the same piece of silicon.

Discrete opamps cannot match this accuracy, even if the transistors are carefully selected they will still be subject to uneven temperature variations.

 

[voodooless]

an op-amp's jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none specifications

Nonsense. There are thousands of different opamps for even more use cases.

 

[mhardy6647]

But isn't the whole thing about op amps that they can be -- ahem -- "tuned" for optimum fit-for-purpose (so to speak) by adjusting the values of various passive components outside the IC amp module?
They're meant to be generic -- in the sense of broadly useful. Their essential characteristics (to borrow the GE vacuum tube manual term) fit them for a nearly infinite suite of applications, no?

source: http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/ge_essential_characteristics.pdf

 

[voodooless]

But isn't the whole thing about op amps that they can be -- ahem -- "tuned" for optimum fit-for-purpose (so to speak) by adjusting the values of various passive components outside the IC amp module?

So can a transistor.. is a transistor evil now, too ? Where does it end ?

 

[DSJR]

Lord, I'm starting to despise certain parts of this godforsaken industry for spreading FUD and general crap, this then spouted to tech-ignorant end-users by equally or more tech-ignorant dealers, who sell what they're either told to, or what gives them the most profit. YES, I was a 'dealer' once, but I made sure to get some half decent product knowledge and bore the pants off any manufacturer I was able to speak to - the extra 'knowledge' I learned often getting me into trouble...

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I am trying to imagine a unit being designed where the op amp to be used is not a known factor during the design process.

"We are done, now for the op amp. Bring out the "Wheel Of OP Amps" and give it a spin, let's see what random one we will be using!"

 

[RoA]

What's the significance of this date?

None, it was simply copied with the text

 

[mhardy6647]

So can a transistor.. is a transistor evil now, too ? Where does it end ?

No, transistors are only evil when used for ill intent.

 

[voodooless]

No, transistors are only evil when used for ill intent.

Like creating linearly operating amplifiers?

 

[mhardy6647]

Like creating linearly operating amplifiers?

Let the record be very clear on this. I am not anti-transistor.
Some of my best friends are transistors.
A priori, I won't even diss integrated circuits!

 

[somebodyelse]

None, it was simply copied with the text

If you're copying text it helps to give a link to the source, both for attribution and context.