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Can I plug a UPS into a surge protector?

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quattro98

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Our audio system is plugged into ZeroSurge series mode surge protectors (https://zerosurge.com/). I'm considering adding a UPS for low power devices like the Ethernet switch and an AV processor (model TBD, but maybe Stormaudio Core16+ which is expensive, so considering the UPS).

I'd probably get an APC rack mount style so the shape fits in the cabinet nicely. Is it ok if I plug it into the ZeroSurge or does it need to go directly to the wall?
www.se.com

SMT750RM2UC - APC Smart-UPS, Line Interactive, 750VA, Rackmount 2U, 120V, 6x NEMA 5-15R outlets, SmartConnect Port+SmartSlot, AVR, LCD | Schneider Electric USA

Schneider Electric USA. SMT750RM2UC - APC Smart-UPS, Line Interactive, 750VA, Rackmount 2U, 120V, 6x NEMA 5-15R outlets, SmartConnect Port+SmartSlot, AVR, LCD.
www.se.com www.se.com

We live in a high rise condo, so I can't change anything in the panel in our unit.
 
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The user manual says: Do not use surge protectors or extension cords

Why not? Probably just CYA on their part.
 
The APC unit must be monumentally poorly designed. APC is saying not to use whole house surge protectors with their equipment which is unacceptable.

It may be that APC has done a poor job of matching impedance, magnitude and/or phase, with the outside world and afraid its equipment won't play nice, resonances and the like, with other devices.

It also might be that the APC units put a lot of spikes on the power line that will quickly destroy certain MOV's. MOV's are a fact of life and are used in 99% of the surge protectors. Equipment has to work with MOV's.

Note: Of course, the ZeroSurge, or many SurgeX units, don't use MOV's.
 
Contains most likely an MOV as its SPD. 680 joules rated per spec sheet. I have 3 APC UPS's throughout my house and I have a Line side (utility) SPD and a circuit breaker panel SPD. No problems.
 
bigguyca said:
The APC unit must be monumentally poorly designed. APC is saying not to use whole house surge protectors with their equipment which is unacceptable.
Click to expand...

I have had whole house surge protectors on my house for about 3 years now, two Siemens FirstSurges, one mounted at each breaker panel. I have had three APS UPSs, one 1500VA and two 1000VA units, since before I installed the surge protectors. I have not had any issues.
 
jdbob said:
The user manual says: Do not use surge protectors or extension cords

Why not? Probably just CYA on their part.
Click to expand...
Correct, it's just to prevent service calls related to issues that are caused by the surge protector or extension cord (although using an extension cord for a permanently installed device may be a code violation also).

It would be more proper, however, to put the surge protector after the UPS rather than before and to connect the UPS cord directly to the wall as stated. In all cases, make sure you are not exceeding the rating(s) of the device(s).
bigguyca said:
The APC unit must be monumentally poorly designed. APC is saying not to use whole house surge protectors with their equipment which is unacceptable.
Click to expand...
They do not say not to use a whole home surge suppressor.
 
I have 2 ZeroSurge units and they currently are used for everything (TV, amps, receiver, sources, etc.). Most of this should not or does not need to be on a UPS.

If absolutely needed, I can add yet another ZeroSurge after the UPS for the few devices that I want on the UPS (mostly upcoming AVP to avoid hassles from minor power issues). Maybe I don't need the UPS at all, but I figured I'd treat the AVP the same as my computer.

If there is a better UPS than APC, I'm happy to consider (they're what I've used for many years).
kyuu said:
Correct, it's just to prevent service calls related to issues that are caused by the surge protector or extension cord (although using an extension cord for a permanently installed device may be a code violation also).

It would be more proper, however, to put the surge protector after the UPS rather than before and to connect the UPS cord directly to the wall as stated. In all cases, make sure you are not exceeding the rating(s) of the device(s).

They do not say not to use a whole home surge suppressor.
Click to expand...
 
quattro98 said:
If absolutely needed, I can add yet another ZeroSurge after the UPS for the few devices that I want on the UPS (mostly upcoming AVP to avoid hassles from minor power issues). Maybe I don't need the UPS at all, but I figured I'd treat the AVP the same as my computer.
Click to expand...
Use a UPS if you want to the downstream device(s) to ride out a brief power outage. For example, I have one for my Playstation 5 only because I had several incidents of extremely transient events causing me to lose significant progress in a game. I also have a UPS for my network equipment to keep my network up for a couple of hours during an outage.

A UPS is generally the wrong solution if you're looking for anything else, however.
quattro98 said:
If there is a better UPS than APC, I'm happy to consider (they're what I've used for many years).
Click to expand...
I could probably recommend something that's a better value if you know what the load will be (or the make/model of all devices that will be attached) and the battery runtime you are looking for.
 
With regard to value, I also consider the availability of replacement batteries. In the past I have had certain UPSs that seemed like a good value when I bought them, but finding replacement batteries was not so easy, and when I found them they were very expensive with a long shipping time. On the subject of replacement batteries, some are better than others. Do your research before buying them.
 
We only have 2 UPSs in the house now. One for my desktop computer, mostly because I've always had one so my computer is not affected during a transient power interruption and one for our router/main wireless AP, and main network switch. I don't have one on every switch or mesh point, but that would be ideal.

For the stereo, I've never had a UPS, but I want to look into it given the cost and complexity of an AV processor. I don't know if it makes sense to do so, but want to see what people on ASR think. The power requirement is minimal (< 300 W load) since I don't care about runtime for something optional like the stereo. I just don't want glitches or hassles from transient power interruptions, but maybe it's not necessary.

I have replaced batteries in our APC units before and like that they're readily available.
 
If you prefer something conventional, I would just get one of the small APC units from here.

If you're amenable to something less conventional, I might recommend trying one of these. No worries about battery replacements, and better runtime. I've been looking at these units for a while and all the reports I've seen have been positive.
 
kyuu said:
If you're amenable to something less conventional, I might recommend trying one of these. No worries about battery replacements, and better runtime. I've been looking at these units for a while and all the reports I've seen have been positive.
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I bought one of these as I got stick of replacing lead acid batteries in traditional UPS units. And these are dead quiet as well. The only issue with the above unit is that it has a faint beeping that cannot be disabled when power is lost. This can wake you up in the middle of night when power goes off and you don't care to know.
 
amirm said:
The only issue with the above unit is that it has a faint beeping that cannot be disabled when power is lost. This can wake you up in the middle of night when power goes off and you don't care to know.
Click to expand...
The buzzer supposedly can be disabled on newer units. Or at least silenced.
 
@kyuu & @amirm Thank you for the recommendations on the lithium battery UPS. I just looked at those when I replaced the UPS for my main network gear (upgraded to a larger size when I was due for a battery change). I went with the tried & true APC, but might get this for the stereo project.
 
I'm all for Lithium batteries in a UPS, sealed Lead Acid battery types are crap on day one and just get worse as they age.

If LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is available vs. Li-Ion, all the better. LiFePo4 cells have much longer cycle life and don't suffer from thermal runaway and potential fire risk.
 
Didn't know anyone made LiFePo4 based consumer UPS's, but makes sense. For my home office I have a Prosine 2.5kW sine wave inverter with a very small 700 watt solar array and two 100 amp 24V LiFePo4 battery banks (originally AGM lead acid batteries replaced after 10 years). This feeds two CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD modified square wave inverters, one for the office computer stuff and one for the gaming PC. After seeing the scary activity during a power fracas in the home theater system I bought a CP1500PFCLCD sine wave inverter that plugs into the wall outlet and then feeds a 7.2.4 system (Denon X4800H based) with a modest 400W subwoofer. It however, due to power routing restrictions in the house, is not fed from the Prosine inverter, but in the few times the power has gone out I have unplugged it from the wall and connected to an outlet that does have backup power using an extension cord. Long story somewhat shorter, the batteries in the UPS's don't actually have to generate power for very long, but are much faster acting than the Prosine inverter so computers don't lose their mind in the meantime.

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