Can home audio speakers handle inputs from instruments?

[PortalKeeper]

I was wondering whether it would be safe to use an audio interface (with an electric guitar or keyboard or microphone plugged in without any EQ or compression) with active or passive home audio speakers such as KEFs or Revels. Speaker companies have told me not to do this multiple times; one of them said it has to do with dynamic range. If it’s not safe, could you please explain why?

 

[thegeton]

It's funny you should bring this up. I parked my car in the Costco lot the other day and could hear some amazing solo guitar work blasting out of the vehicle next to mine. I looked over and there's this guy with a BC Rich Bitch cranking it out through his aftermarket car stereo. Amazingly loud and crazy good. I probably listened to that guy shred for 5 minutes before I remembered where I was and what I was supposed to be doing.

Feels like this is a "yes, but..." situation. Like, yes, but keep the volume down so as to protect your speakers. IMHO, of course.

 

[Mattknz]

I have also wondered this and the advice I have always been given is not to do it as it may damage the speakers, even at low volume.
Doesn't make any sense to me. Aren't the speakers reproducing the same sounds when you play recorded music?
I haven't been brave enough to try.

 

[NTK]

The main characteristic that distinguishes pro monitors from consumer speakers, using Dr Toole's words :

The winning small/medium monitors were Canadian products: PSB and Energy (consumer products) and the medium/large monitors were JBL - all are long obsolete. But once that phase was completed the CBC realized that once they had access to comprehensive and accurate measurements (the precursor of the spinorama that I created around 1983), they could include other options in the future. It removed a lot of the mystery and folklore surrounding monitor speakers - the only feature that truly separates them from mainstream consumer products is reliability under severe distress (e.g. a dropped mic) - dead air is a no-no.
...

 

[Mnyb]

I friend of mine blowed his two way speakers with an electric guitar and a fostex porta pro and some effect boxes and it was the bass mid in a two way the left the chat . He was at the time into funk and prince kind of music . No heavy metal.

Music you normally listen is produced and dynamically limited you can probably get impulses clicks and pops too while handling your instrument.

 

[Waxx]

Musical instruments need more headroom (20-30dB), so on big speakers it would not be a problem, but small may overload and distort until destruction. To avoid that you can use a brickwall limiter off course but that will impact the sound.

Most guitar players i know actually use a very small tube amp at home at low volume. It can't go relative loud in peaks but as tubes distort less aggressive than solid state, the don't destroy your speakers. Something like a Vox AC10 or a Fender '57 Custom Champ are classic amps like that, but there are a lot of modern iterations of those low power "practice" amps also that fit the bill. They have a low power (5 to 10w) tube amplifier coupled to a relative big speaker for that.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Unlike a bass, going straight into the board with a guitar usually sounds pretty bad unless you're John Lennon. I've played guitars through hi-fi speakers/monitors but always through a modeller with a cabinet sim, etc., so it sounds somewhat like a real amp.

 

[Sokel]

Nope, a violin captured by a modest Acacia Audio LIZ for example straight to it's pre> line level pre > amps would require REALLY good mid/highs (and I mean undistorted high SPL ones) unless very attenuated.
Not something I would try.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

It works fine as long as you understand the gain structure of what you're doing and you don't turn anything up louder than it can handle. For obvious reasons, instruments with more low frequency content (bass guitar, keyboards, synthesizers, drum machines) can do more damage. If you are distorting the input with improper gain then you could be sending square wave information to the speakers and that can cause some problems even at lower volumes. If you don't have any type of high pass filter on your instrument then you could be sending an unreasonable amount of low end to them and cause damage. Recorded music normally has a lot of compression and is limited by the medium that it's recorded on. Plus, your gain structure is set up for recorded music. Real instruments have more dynamic range and no compression or limiting unless you add it so you can easily hit the speaker drivers with more force and blow them up.
I personally play guitar and bass into an amp modeler and home speakers all of the time with no problems but I understand the limitations and gain structure. I certainly wouldn't try to get them loud enough to play along with a band.

 

[mhardy6647]

A comment and a question:

1) it's probably pretty clear already, but the issue of uncontrolled dynamic range (no limiter or compressor to protect the reproduction chain) definitely enhances the risk to... well... everything: Probably mostly the loudspeakers, but possibly the amplfier(s), too. I am leery of the current crop of small, nominally powerful amplifiers with poor heat management. OK for recorded music (which is typically very processed and not terribly dynamic, 24 bit, yadda-yadda notwithstanding), but not meant for live performance. Something like the Crown Class D pro amps, of course, are (should be) exception.

2) I have never (!) been clear on the output characteristics of the little transducers (pickups) on electric guitars. I don't know what the output voltage is (low, isn't it?), nor the best case impedance for the (pre)amp input. Mind you, I'm one of those folks who will plug anything into anything, so I've done it... but, again, not systematically -- and I am too lazy to have actually ever learned.

 

[Heinrich]

I was wondering whether it would be safe to use an audio interface (with an electric guitar or keyboard or microphone plugged in without any EQ or compression) with active or passive home audio speakers such as KEFs or Revels. Speaker companies have told me not to do this multiple times; one of them said it has to do with dynamic range. If it’s not safe, could you please explain why?

You get away with using JBL 305s, sporting a 5" bass for a 5 string bass guitar. Because it is active, has limiters galore. But w/ passives the risk was very high. Not only the big thug from plucking the string, but also EMI pickup could ruin your day, and the next too. Guess from what I know (the EMI).

It doesn't sound that good anyway, because the speaker is meant to complement the instument, or better to say, it is part of the instrument. There are many cable-guys in between the musicians, but some taste-driven decision making is very true.

 

[Mnyb]

Can you have DC issues with this kind of equipment , studios do away with this (usually) and generally restrict LF in commercial records to something sane re the genre of music

 

[raindance]

My son uses JBL LSR305's or Edifier MR 4's with effects on his keyboard and guitar. I don't think I'd recommend using a typical hifi system unless you have some form of compression/limiting to minimize dynamic range. Just because there's nothing stopping you playing, a guitar for example, extra loud or even just accidently banging on the strings. A keyboard is safer than a guitar in this instance.

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

A comment and a question:

1) it's probably pretty clear already, but the issue of uncontrolled dynamic range (no limiter or compressor to protect the reproduction chain) definitely enhances the risk to... well... everything: Probably mostly the loudspeakers, but possibly the amplfier(s), too. I am leery of the current crop of small, nominally powerful amplifiers with poor heat management. OK for recorded music (which is typically very processed and not terribly dynamic, 24 bit, yadda-yadda notwithstanding), but not meant for live performance. Something like the Crown Class D pro amps, of course, are (should be) exception.

2) I have never (!) been clear on the output characteristics of the little transducers (pickups) on electric guitars. I don't know what the output voltage is (low, isn't it?), nor the best case impedance for the (pre)amp input. Mind you, I'm one of those folks who will plug anything into anything, so I've done it... but, again, not systematically -- and I am too lazy to have actually ever learned.

Guitar pickups have really low output, which is why the amplifier is so important. The sound of an electric guitar plugged straight into a hifi (low distortion) amplifier is quite atrocious and unusable. This is why guitar amps are so different than hifi amps. So, I would never plug a guitar amp into a hifi setup without some kind of amplifier modeler in front of it. A bass can sound alright but you still need some kind of preamp in front of the amplifier. Electric guitars, especially when they are run through loads of distortion in a guitar amplifier or modeler, are very compressed and don't need additional compression except in special cases. They also don't put out a lot of low frequency content unless there are specific effects used. So they're much safer than a bass guitar through hifi stuff. But again, you have to know what you're doing with the gain staging and you need a specific preamp or modeler designed for it. Otherwise, it will just sound awful and you'll likely see smoke from your tweeter.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

As a practice amp. Don't use in a club.

 

[PortalKeeper]

Guitar pickups have really low output, which is why the amplifier is so important. The sound of an electric guitar plugged straight into a hifi (low distortion) amplifier is quite atrocious and unusable. This is why guitar amps are so different than hifi amps. So, I would never plug a guitar amp into a hifi setup without some kind of amplifier modeler in front of it. A bass can sound alright but you still need some kind of preamp in front of the amplifier. Electric guitars, especially when they are run through loads of distortion in a guitar amplifier or modeler, are very compressed and don't need additional compression except in special cases. They also don't put out a lot of low frequency content unless there are specific effects used. So they're much safer than a bass guitar through hifi stuff. But again, you have to know what you're doing with the gain staging and you need a specific preamp or modeler designed for it. Otherwise, it will just sound awful and you'll likely see smoke from your tweeter.

The audio interface is assumed to have hi-Z inputs so it can handle the pickups on an electric guitar or bass. I am still a bit confused on how the dynamic range plays into blowing/heating drivers up. If you for instance have an amp that goes to full power (according to spec) at 5V input, a DAC that goes exactly to 5V output on full volume, and a speaker capable of handling the amplifier’s max power rating, wouldn’t you be good no matter what volume you put the system?

 

[raindance]

The audio interface is assumed to have hi-Z inputs so it can handle the pickups on an electric guitar or bass. I am still a bit confused on how the dynamic range plays into blowing/heating drivers up. If you for instance have an amp that goes to full power (according to spec) at 5V input, a DAC that goes exactly to 5V output on full volume, and a speaker capable of handling the amplifier’s max power rating, wouldn’t you be good no matter what volume you put the system?

Not if you clip the amplifier.

 

[PortalKeeper]

Not if you clip the amplifier.

But how would you do such a thing if your DAC (audio interface) can only go up to 5V, which happens to match the maximum voltage it takes to put your amp at full power (which I believe is calculated taking into account a limit of 1% THD+N)?

 

[mhardy6647]

So -- I am racking (maybe even wracking!?) my brain and scouring places like worldradiohistory.com for evidence of things I remember from the late-60s/early-70s -- to wit, consumer hifi stereo (integrated) amplifiers and/or receivers containing a labeled guitar input jack. There've been plenty with mic inputs (high impedance and high gain, at least nominally acceptable for a gee-tar pickup) -- but I cannot find any with dedicated musical instrument/guitar inputs... so far.
This being said, I am nothing if not obsessive... when I get obsessed with something...

 

[Avp1]

What kind of home speakers are you talking here? THX requires undistorted sound pressure of at least 105dB at listening position. If your speakers cannot do that, they do not qualify for real hi-fi. All serious speakers I had were safe for 110dB or higher.