Can content below the audibitly threshold (Infrasonic Bass) mask audible content (Bass)?

[Plompudu]

I'm currently looking at discussions on Infrasonic Bass and Subwoofers and have been wondering if infrasonic Bass can mask content above for example 20Hz? Could this be a reason why some say that they can audibly hear a difference when adding/removing infrasonic Bass? (Seen this different perception multiple times on some other Forums, but it can likely be something else at play)

How about "normal" Bass a slight bit below 0 phon and midrange frequencies?
(I'm not at home and can't measure my audibitly threshold/my "0 phon response" so i can't test it properly)

Can you please share your experience and resources on the Topic with me?

 

[Hayabusa]

I'm currently looking at discussions on Infrasonic Bass and Subwoofers and have been wondering if infrasonic Bass can mask content above for example 20Hz? Could this be a reason why some say that they can audibly hear a difference when adding/removing infrasonic Bass? (Seen this multiple times on some other Forums, but it can likely be something else at play)

How about "normal" Bass a slight bit below 0 phon and midrange frequencies?
(I'm not at home and can't measure my audibitly threshold/my "0 phon response" so i can't test it properly)

Can you please share your experience and resources on the Topic with me?

Interesting question, you could test yourself with a good headphone...

 

[Fidji]

for what it is worth, i can confirm that there is clear audible advantage in having infrasonic bass, both for movies and live music recordings.
Here I only speculate - but i assume, that system, that is capable playing on to 10Hz will be not so close to its limit at 20Hz.

this 2dB bump is intentional.

 

[DVDdoug]

Bass can mask content above for example 20Hz?

No. Masking means "drowning-out". You can't hear a quieter sound because a louder sound dominates.

But it can push the amp or woofer into clipping/distortion, where the audible range becomes distorted.

And you may feel vibrations and possibly pressure in your ears, that aren't perceived as sound.

 

[Neuro]

Can't find any masking images for 20 Hz but it's just to do simple interpolation.

The lower the frequency, the wider the masking effect.
Often the mix engineers do not reproduce low frequencies in the mix. Low frequencies when reproducing the mixing result at home mask large parts of the music and the mixer's intentions disappear. My experience is not to play music below 30 Hz to avoid suboptimal reproduction.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

The lower the frequency, the wider the masking effect.
Often the mix engineers do not reproduce low frequencies in the mix. Low frequencies when reproducing the mixing result at home mask large parts of the music and the mixer's intentions disappear. My experience is not to play music below 30 Hz to avoid suboptimal reproduction

I don't understand this. If the mixing engineers have not reproduced sounds below 30Hz, then you won't be able to play them, regardless of how low a frequency you can reproduce in the home.

 

[robh36062]

Often the mix engineers do not reproduce low frequencies in the mix. Low frequencies when reproducing the mixing result at home mask large parts of the music and the mixer's intentions disappear. My experience is not to play music below 30 Hz to avoid suboptimal reproduction.

Are you talking a continuous tone? How quickly does the masking occur? Just seems odd to me. Look at HT. How about 16Hz/32Hz sustained pedals in pipe organ or synthesizers?

I understand masking occurs that's how MP3 works perceptual encoding. Never heard it linked to the lowest octaves where our ear are less sensitive.

What's being masked in the performance below?

Rob

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't understand this. If the mixing engineers have not reproduced sounds below 30Hz, then you won't be able to play them, regardless of how low a frequency you can reproduce in the home.

That's correct! If they don't exist, they don't exist.*

For reference, the lowest note on a regular bass guitar is about 40Hz. Piano goes lower but the lowest notes are mostly harmonics so there's not much low-frequency energy. A kick drum might go lower. Organ (and electronic music) can go as low as you want.

Subwoofers used in dance clubs and for live music usually only go down to around 40Hz. Speakers involve lots of compromises and it's a compromise to make a more efficient and louder woofer to fill a large venue with bass you can feel in your body. Subs used at home or in studios often go lower. Pro studio woofer/subwoofers go loud (with enough amplifier power) AND they go low.

If a mixing/mastering engineer puts a lot of low bass on a recording you can end-up with bass that the "average" speaker can't reproduce. But that low bass can still push your amplifier or speaker into distortion, distorting what you can hear. It also takes-away available "loudness" from the rest of the audio band... They can make the recording louder (to win the "loudness wars") if they reduce the deep & subsonic bass.



...Vinyl also has trouble with very-low frequencies but the vinyl can be a different master. From what I understand, the most common practice is to take the regular digital master and make some "tweaks" but it's possible to make a completely separate master.



* I have a DBX sub-bass synthesizer.