can av receive reproduce full bandwidth 20hz-20khz on every channel without any loss?

[derekchan]

if this receiver only drive one channel speaker , can it reproduce full bandwidth 20hz-20khz without any loss

Number of Power Amps
7
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 8Ω) Channels: 1~5
140 W
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 6Ω) Channels: 1~5
170 W
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 8Ω) Channels: Remaining
60 W
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 6Ω) Channels: Remaining
75 W
Speaker Impedance
>4Ω

channels
2
Power Output RMS (Per Channel) 8Ω
225 W
Power Output RMS (Per Channel) 4Ω
400 W
Power Output RMS (Per Channel) 2Ω
600 W
Power Bandwidth
90 kHz (-3 dB at 200 W into 8 ohms)
Input Sensitivity
1.5 Vrms (225 W into 8 Ω)
Input Impedance
10kΩ (RCA), 15kΩ (XLR)
Voltage Gain
29 dB
Slew Rate
30 V/μs
Frequency Response
8Ω = 20 Hz - 20 kHz ± 0.1 dB 4Ω = 20 Hz - 20 kHz ± 0.1 dB 2Ω = 20 Hz - 20 kHz ± 0.2 dB
Channel Separation
n/a
Crosstalk
n/a
Signal-to-Noise Ratio
120 dB (IEC-A, ref. 225 W)
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise
0.0010% (1 kHz), 0.002% (20 kHz) @ 100 W
Intermodulation Distortion
ITU-R (19 kHz + 20 kHz) 0.0005% @ 100 W SMPTE (60 Hz + 7 kHz) 0.002% @ 100 W
Damping Factor
(20 Hz - 1 kHz) 300

 

[DonH56]

if this receiver only drive one channel speaker , can it reproduce full bandwidth 20hz-20khz without any loss

Number of Power Amps
7
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 8Ω) Channels: 1~5
140 W
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 6Ω) Channels: 1~5
170 W
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 8Ω) Channels: Remaining
60 W
Maximum Continuous Output (1% THD) (20Hz - 20kHz, Two Channels Driven @ 6Ω) Channels: Remaining
75 W
Speaker Impedance
>4Ω

channels
2
Power Output RMS (Per Channel) 8Ω
225 W
Power Output RMS (Per Channel) 4Ω
400 W
Power Output RMS (Per Channel) 2Ω
600 W
Power Bandwidth
90 kHz (-3 dB at 200 W into 8 ohms)
Input Sensitivity
1.5 Vrms (225 W into 8 Ω)
Input Impedance
10kΩ (RCA), 15kΩ (XLR)
Voltage Gain
29 dB
Slew Rate
30 V/μs
Frequency Response
8Ω = 20 Hz - 20 kHz ± 0.1 dB 4Ω = 20 Hz - 20 kHz ± 0.1 dB 2Ω = 20 Hz - 20 kHz ± 0.2 dB
Channel Separation
n/a
Crosstalk
n/a
Signal-to-Noise Ratio
120 dB (IEC-A, ref. 225 W)
Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise
0.0010% (1 kHz), 0.002% (20 kHz) @ 100 W
Intermodulation Distortion
ITU-R (19 kHz + 20 kHz) 0.0005% @ 100 W SMPTE (60 Hz + 7 kHz) 0.002% @ 100 W
Damping Factor
(20 Hz - 1 kHz) 300

The specs say that it can. Frequency response is not usually affected by the number of channels driven, only the available output power. Output power is usually limited by the power supply limits and thermal (heat) considerations.

 

[derekchan]

The specs say that it can. Frequency response is not usually affected by the number of channels driven, only the available output power. Output power is usually limited by the power supply limits and thermal (heat) considerations.

if a integ av receiver can drive multiple speaker within full bandwidth
may i ask what is the purpose of 3 channel ati power amp which are quite expensive can costs more than 4000 usd
should i consider these class d ati power amp for bookshelf jbl 4309 or jbl 4312g

 

[solderdude]

As stated the bandwidth (nor power bandwidth) is not an issue.
Power output and lower than expected impedance of speakers may be a reason to look for another amplifier or functionality.

 

[mhardy6647]

Yes. @DonH56 and @solderdude "hit the nail on the head", as usual.
AI couldn't have synthesized a more concise and cogent response as theirs.

 

[DonH56]

if a integ av receiver can drive multiple speaker within full bandwidth
may i ask what is the purpose of 3 channel ati power amp which are quite expensive can costs more than 4000 usd
should i consider these class d ati power amp for bookshelf jbl 4309 or jbl 4312g

An external power amplifier may provide more power than the AVR. That does not affect the frequency response but allows the speakers to play louder -- as long as they can handle the extra power. Whether you need more power depends upon your system, mainly speakers, listening position, and desired volume (loudness). Marketing and peer pressure often drives the desire ("want") for an amplifier more than actual need, and of course manufacturers of power amplifiers are in the business of selling you a power amplifier. If your AVR plays loudly enough without distortion or shutting down (usually due to overheating) then you probably do not need a power amplifier. Your speakers are rated for 25-100 W so I tend to believe you do not need a power amplifier, certainly not one significantly over 100 W.

Here is my ancient post about power needs; note that required headroom also depends very much on the music/movies you listen to:

Power Needs:

For many years I have used 17 dB peak-to-average power based on an old AES article I can no longer find. Anecdotally various audio fora report 20 dB or more for movies. IME most people use much less average power than they think, but require more peak power. An online calculator can help you estimate your average power; note 80 dB is very loud to me (YMMV). Here is one:

Peak SPL Calculator

Most people think of volume in dB and most modern AVR/AVP/etc. units list dB on the volume knob. Power in dB goes as 10log10(Power_ratio) so the change in power is 10^(dB/10). Here are some reference numbers in dB and power:

1 dB is barely noticeable and requires 1.26x the power
3 dB is what most people hear as "a little louder" and requires 2x the power
6 dB is significantly louder and requires 4x the power
10 dB sounds twice as loud and requires 10x the power
17 dB is the headroom for music and requires 50x the average power
20 dB headroom for movies requires 100x the power

If you listen at around 1 W average, then you need 50~100 W to avoid clipping on most source material. You can figure out your estimated average power from the calculator knowing your speaker's sensitivity and distance from them. Note music may be more compressed and thus require less headroom, and the loudest sounds in movies tend to be things like gun shots and explosions where a little clipping is likely unnoticeable.

HTH - Don

 

[Redacted]

" If she says she can do it then she can do it, she don't make false claims"

 

[derekchan]

An external power amplifier may provide more power than the AVR. That does not affect the frequency response but allows the speakers to play louder -- as long as they can handle the extra power. Whether you need more power depends upon your system, mainly speakers, listening position, and desired volume (loudness). Marketing and peer pressure often drives the desire ("want") for an amplifier more than actual need, and of course manufacturers of power amplifiers are in the business of selling you a power amplifier. If your AVR plays loudly enough without distortion or shutting down (usually due to overheating) then you probably do not need a power amplifier. Your speakers are rated for 25-100 W so I tend to believe you do not need a power amplifier, certainly not one significantly over 100 W.

Here is my ancient post about power needs; note that required headroom also depends very much on the music/movies you listen to:

Power Needs:

For many years I have used 17 dB peak-to-average power based on an old AES article I can no longer find. Anecdotally various audio fora report 20 dB or more for movies. IME most people use much less average power than they think, but require more peak power. An online calculator can help you estimate your average power; note 80 dB is very loud to me (YMMV). Here is one:

Peak SPL Calculator

Most people think of volume in dB and most modern AVR/AVP/etc. units list dB on the volume knob. Power in dB goes as 10log10(Power_ratio) so the change in power is 10^(dB/10). Here are some reference numbers in dB and power:

1 dB is barely noticeable and requires 1.26x the power
3 dB is what most people hear as "a little louder" and requires 2x the power
6 dB is significantly louder and requires 4x the power
10 dB sounds twice as loud and requires 10x the power
17 dB is the headroom for music and requires 50x the average power
20 dB for movies requires 100x the power

If you listen at around 1 W average, then you need 50~100 W to avoid clipping on most source material. You can figure out your estimated average power from the calculator knowing your speaker's sensitivity and distance from them. Note music may be more compressed and thus require less headroom, and the loudest sounds in movies tend to be things like gun shots and explosions where a little clipping is likely unnoticeable.

HTH - Don

i drive the jbl4309 with more than 100w by mca225 power amp
what happen if power over than rated 100w ?
do you mean this jbl speaker are not capable of handling high power like 800w from power amp?

 

[DonH56]

i drive the jbl4309 with more than 100w by mca225 power amp
what happen if power over than rated 100w ?
do you mean this jbl speaker are not capable of handling high power like 800w from power amp?

At some point the speaker will fail. It depends upon the failure mechanism, how much power you apply, and for how long. There is not a simple answer. You'd have to ask JBL what peak power the speaker can handle and for how long, and what average power it will handle. Distortion from nonlinear excursion and cone flexure modes will increase distortion. The voice coil could burn up or delaminate (wires burn in two or glue melts), warp or bottom out damaging the coil former, the surround or cone could rip, the magnet could be degrade by excessive heat from the voice coil, and so forth.

Speaker power ratings also assume a typical frequency response and not full power at all frequencies. A speaker rated for 100 W power handling does not mean the tweeter can take 100 W, for example, probably more like 10 W, though the woofer can take 100 W and midrange probably something in between. Chances are with a 800 W amp you are not using anywhere near that amount of power for normal listening. What matters is not the power amp's rating but how much power you are actually sending to the speaker, and at what frequency, and for how long. For example (just a guess, not your speaker), a woofer rated for 100 W average power can probably run there for a little while before it overheats, can take 10 W "forever", 200 W for a few seconds, and 800 W not at all without damage. A tweeter's long-term average power rating may be only a few watts. Real music has peaks up to 50 times or so the average level, so the average power is just a small fraction (1/50) of the peak power, and those peaks are short giving the speaker drivers time to cool between peaks.

You can use a 1000 W amplifier on a 10 W speaker as long as you do not use that much power. People talk about headroom, and that is a real thing, but too much just wastes money and power you cannot use and the speaker cannot take. For a speaker rated 100 W I personally would not buy an 800 W amplifier, more like 100 to 200 W amplifier, but if I only had a nice 800 W amplifier in my system I would use it and be very careful to keep the volume reasonable and listen for any sign of distress (harsh sound, crackling or thumping noise) from the speakers.

Read my previous post about power levels again, and go to the online SPL calculator where you can plug in numbers to get an estimate of how much power you actually need, and see if that falls within the speaker's capability. Most people greatly overestimate their average power need, and underestimate the peaks, but with lower than expected average power the peaks are often not unreasonable.

 

[Miker 1102]

At some point the speaker will fail. It depends upon the failure mechanism, how much power you apply, and for how long. There is not a simple answer. You'd have to ask JBL what peak power the speaker can handle and for how long, and what average power it will handle. Distortion from nonlinear excursion and cone flexure modes will increase distortion. The voice coil could burn up or delaminate (wires burn in two or glue melts), warp or bottom out damaging the coil former, the surround or cone could rip, the magnet could be degrade by excessive heat from the voice coil, and so forth.

Speaker power ratings also assume a typical frequency response and not full power at all frequencies. A speaker rated for 100 W power handling does not mean the tweeter can take 100 W, for example, probably more like 10 W, though the woofer can and midrange probably something in between. Chances are if with a 800 W amp you are not using anywhere near that amount of power for normal listening. What matters is not the power amp's rating but how much power you are actually sending to the speaker, and at what frequency, and for how long. For example (just a guess, not your speaker), a woofer rated for 100 W average power can probably run there for a little while before it overheats, can take 10 W "forever", 200 W for a few seconds, and 800 W not at all without damage. A tweeter's long-term average power rating may be only a few watts. Real music has peaks up to 50 times or so the average level, so the average power is just a small fraction (1/50) of the peak power, and those peaks are short giving the speaker drivers time to cool between peaks.

You can use a 1000 W amplifier on a 10 W speaker as long as you do not use that much power. People talk about headroom, and that is a real thing, but too much just wastes money and power you cannot use and the speaker cannot take. For a speaker rated 100 W I personally would not buy an 800 W amplifier, more like 100 to 200 W amplifier, but if I only had a nice 800 W amplifier in my system I would use it and be very careful to keep the volume reasonable and listen for any sign of distress (harsh sound, crackling or thumping noise) from the speakers.

Read my previous post about power levels again, and go to the online SPL calculator where you can plug in numbers to get an estimate of how much power you actually need, and see if that falls within the speaker's capability. Most people greatly overestimate their average power need, and underestimate the peaks, but with lower than expected average power the peaks are often not unreasonable.

Thank you for this explanation. My center channel just failed and this was a helpful explanation as to maybe what I heard.

 

[derekchan]

At some point the speaker will fail. It depends upon the failure mechanism, how much power you apply, and for how long. There is not a simple answer. You'd have to ask JBL what peak power the speaker can handle and for how long, and what average power it will handle. Distortion from nonlinear excursion and cone flexure modes will increase distortion. The voice coil could burn up or delaminate (wires burn in two or glue melts), warp or bottom out damaging the coil former, the surround or cone could rip, the magnet could be degrade by excessive heat from the voice coil, and so forth.

Speaker power ratings also assume a typical frequency response and not full power at all frequencies. A speaker rated for 100 W power handling does not mean the tweeter can take 100 W, for example, probably more like 10 W, though the woofer can take 100 W and midrange probably something in between. Chances are with a 800 W amp you are not using anywhere near that amount of power for normal listening. What matters is not the power amp's rating but how much power you are actually sending to the speaker, and at what frequency, and for how long. For example (just a guess, not your speaker), a woofer rated for 100 W average power can probably run there for a little while before it overheats, can take 10 W "forever", 200 W for a few seconds, and 800 W not at all without damage. A tweeter's long-term average power rating may be only a few watts. Real music has peaks up to 50 times or so the average level, so the average power is just a small fraction (1/50) of the peak power, and those peaks are short giving the speaker drivers time to cool between peaks.

You can use a 1000 W amplifier on a 10 W speaker as long as you do not use that much power. People talk about headroom, and that is a real thing, but too much just wastes money and power you cannot use and the speaker cannot take. For a speaker rated 100 W I personally would not buy an 800 W amplifier, more like 100 to 200 W amplifier, but if I only had a nice 800 W amplifier in my system I would use it and be very careful to keep the volume reasonable and listen for any sign of distress (harsh sound, crackling or thumping noise) from the speakers.

Read my previous post about power levels again, and go to the online SPL calculator where you can plug in numbers to get an estimate of how much power you actually need, and see if that falls within the speaker's capability. Most people greatly overestimate their average power need, and underestimate the peaks, but with lower than expected average power the peaks are often not unreasonable.

can i ask
some direct heat single end tube power amp only output few watt to speaker,can this small watt power amp drive 4309 rated 25w-100w?

2.can tiny 3.5 in 8010a genelec speaker reproduce accuracy clear vocal mid-range sound? i plan to setup a surround channel setup with this tiny speaker

3.i compared the 5w internal speaker of a 4k tv and jbl4309 6.5in speaker,those mid range vocal are clear to hear the vocal sound
what is the difference of vocal mid range performanced between the very tiny speaker inside of the tv and this small size bookshelf two way speaker?
despite the bass and deep bass,can they play the similar mid range vocal sound?

 

[DonH56]

can i ask
some direct heat single end tube power amp only output few watt to speaker,can this small watt power amp drive 4309 rated 25w-100w?

You can always use less power. The two main problems are that low power might be enough to achieve the volume (loudness) desired, and if more power is needed than the amplifier can provide cleanly then distortion will behigh, making it sound bad and potentially damaging the tweeter since clipped signal have more and higher frequency content.

Another potential issue with SET and similar amplifiers is that their output impedance is high which can cause frequency response to vary depending upon the speaker.

2.can tiny 3.5 in 8010a genelec speaker reproduce accuracy clear vocal mid-range sound? i plan to setup a surround channel setup with this tiny speaker

I have no idea, I do not know what 3.5 is and am not familiar with that speaker. You can use an online SPL calculator to estimate the power needed, or just try it and see. But I believe the Genelec is an active monitor, which means it has its own power amplifiers inside the speaker, no external power amp required.

For reference: http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html

3.i compared the 5w internal speaker of a 4k tv and jbl4309 6.5in speaker,those mid range vocal are clear to hear the vocal sound
what is the difference of vocal mid range performanced between the very tiny speaker inside of the tv and this small size bookshelf two way speaker?
despite the bass and deep bass,can they play the similar mid range vocal sound?

I do not have those to compare. Internal TV speakers tend to be smaller, with less power handling capability and lower peak output, though they have improved over the years. External speakers typically offer better and deeper bass and very high frequencies, and play louder without distortion. They also allow you to position them for better sound and imaging. In the midrange you may notice the external speakers can play louder without distortion and can present a better stereo image than the smaller, fixed-position internal TV speakers. If the internal speakers are loud enough and clear enough then perhaps you do not need external speakers.

 

[welwynnick]

I have no idea, I do not know what 3.5 is and am not familiar with that speaker.

It wasn't clear, but I think he was referring to the size of the drive unit.

 

[Mort]

can tiny 3.5 in 8010a genelec speaker reproduce accuracy clear vocal mid-range sound? i plan to setup a surround channel setup with this tiny speaker

The 8010a is amazing what is does for it's size. Yes it can reproduce vocal ranges clearly, but very quietly. You can't push them hard, they are basically travel toys.

 

[derekchan]

The 8010a is amazing what is does for it's size. Yes it can reproduce vocal ranges clearly, but very quietly. You can't push them hard, they are basically travel toys.

how about mdr7506 is it a travel toy like 8010a