theREALdotnet
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Nope. Dumped them and never looked back. So I am not people ;-)
Same here. I actually dread the memory of playing records, and all the futzing around it required.
Nope. Dumped them and never looked back. So I am not people ;-)
Nope. Again you have invented a personal definition of superiority to support your own argument. Not convincing at all.'Of course' to the former, 'depends' to the latter; 'depends' if you are pragmatic. If so then you know why LP sales are increasing. And for anyone into digital, that should be a wake up that digital still needs to improve.
So then why has the LP been on the upswing? It shouldn't be...
https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/
It really should be ... gone!
I see a lot of denial around its existence. You can say how much better digital is and I won't argue that its better. I argue that its not better enough. The simple fact is the LP is still around and sales are increasing. That doesn't happen when a superior technology succeeds the prior art.
Well, obviously it means something real for a lot of people. But so do astrology, numerology and moon landing conspiracy theories. Something is keeping those things alive, too.The anti vinyl posse is just denying there is something that keeps vinyl alive, they say it's a fashion for over 30 years now. 30 years is not a fashion, that is that it means something real for a lot of people and as long as you keep denying it you will never understand the reason why vinyl keeps selling and the sales numbers go up. Saying it's a fashion is just saying i don't want to know....
I came to a similar-ish conclusion but based on a completely different set of experiences and experiments on myself.
If digital were really that much better there would be no discussion about cartridges, tonearms, turntables, cartridge setup and most of all discussions like this one! It would be moot. Its been about 41 years since the inception of the CD and LPs are still around?? I've no doubt that one day it will be better in every way... when that day comes people won't argue about it.
The fact this thread exists points to this simple truth.
Anytime a new technology appears, if it is truly superior the prior art vanishes and becomes a thing of collectors for nostalgia only; dust bins of history and all that. Look at side valves in internal combustion engines. Overhead valves showed up and no-one looks back- they are more reliable and offer vastly improved performance. No surprises here: no-one puts side valves in cars anymore. IOW the prior art has vanished.
That's not happened with the LP- yet. So we know (whether we like it or not) the existing art needs improvement. You can make the argument that people prefer distortion.. and other such nonsense. Sheesh! The pragmatic individual will look at the bigger picture and see its really obvious the digital still has some homework to do.
With digital you get exactly what the record company released and that’s it.
Well, obviously it means something real for a lot of people. But so do astrology, numerology and moon landing conspiracy theories. Something is keeping those things alive, too.
neither you nor I can escape marketing as soon as it flatters our preferences, our affects.Very true. But when we are trying to understand or explain peoples beliefs or motivations we have to beware personally comfortable but facile “explanations” that don’t actually illuminate. People believe plenty of weird things, and you can throw revealed religions right in to the pot above.
But if I were to “explain” those beliefs or actions by just saying “well, lots of people are clearly dumb” then that would simply be a way of making myself feel better at the expense of not really trying to understand how even smart people believe these things.
A similar “explanation” for vinyl often offered is that its just a “fad” for “hipsters” and about joining the crowd. That too is a facile “explanation” that does more work to make the person saying this feel superior than it does shedding light and really understanding the complexity of the phenomena.
neither you nor I can escape marketing as soon as it flatters our preferences, our affects.
Well the thread recap 11 pages ago tried not to oversimplify.
That too is a facile “explanation” that does more work to make the person saying this feel superior than it does shedding light and really understanding the complexity of the phenomena.
for the majority of consumers vinyl is only a fashion purchase dictated by the media noise generated by the business. 99% don't know what mastering is: on this forum of educated people it is even laughable.So, in regards to explaining why people like vinyl, does that go in to the "It's All Just Marketing" category?
I'm not sure what you may be disagreeing with.
Well obviously not if you f*ck about with it yourself using plug ins etc and your room acoustic is irrelevant to the accuracy of the recording, or how much it has been manipulated by the record company.Do you really though?
(Note - all these plugins are generally off when I'm listening. But they can be fun to play with)
View attachment 233001
And this is not to mention my MiniDSP flex with which I can adapt my sound to compensate the room and speakers - and optimise the tonality to taste with a target FR curve. I can even do that for my vinyl (with a modified target curve to compensate higher frequency rolloff) since the MiniDSP has an analogue input.
Try and do all that with a pure analogue sound chain. Believe me, the above is by far easier (and cheaper) than messing about with different turntables, tonearms, cartridges and setups.
That is rubbish.I always read about people that claim the vinyl would have less of a dynamic compression.
Even if the same CD Master is used for the Vinyl.
You seemed to be making an argument that a benefit of vinyl is you can get different sounds through differnet turntables, cartridges, tonearms and such. And you can compensate for a weakness in one part of your system, with an opposing weakness in another. And you can’t do that with digital, because you get only what was mastered. “And that’s it”Well obviously not if you f*ck about with it yourself using plug ins etc and your room acoustic is irrelevant to the accuracy of the recording, or how much it has been manipulated by the record company.
What you DO get is an output from your DAC (as long as it is properly engineered) audibly indistinguishable from the output of their DAC.
Very unlikely the output from your phono stage is audibly indistinguishable from what the record company people get.
That was not my point. Hence the inverted commas around "best"You seemed to be making an argument that a benefit of vinyl is you can get different sounds through differnet turntables, cartridges, tonearms and such. And you can compensate for a weakness in one part of your system, with an opposing weakness in another. And you can’t do that with digital, because you get only what was mastered.
That is rubbish.
The dynamic range potential of LPs is less than that of CD, particularly at high frequency.
However, because LPs will definitely only be listened to in a domestic environment some LP manufacturers may well choose to cut an LP using a lot of its dynamic range potential whereas the vast majority of people listen to digital streamed music on telephones, ear buds, in cars and on smart speakers. Here both the equipment and/or the environment are completely incapable of reproducing everything in a 16/44.1 window, so the dynamic range is changed before releasing the recording to make it suitable for most listeners.
Unfortunately hifi owners don't count and the splendid capability of 16/44.1 is not made available to them.