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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

Leporello

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Very true. But when we are trying to understand or explain peoples beliefs or motivations we have to beware personally comfortable but facile “explanations” that don’t actually illuminate. People believe plenty of weird things, and you can throw revealed religions right in to the pot above.
What beliefs and motivations are we trying to understand? Sure, quite a few people prefer the sound of vinyl. We all know that, no scientific mystery there. I prefer chocolate ice cream over plain vanilla. No mystery needing explanation there. But many vinylphiles constantly argue as if this was a deep problem challenging our understanding of audio - "something that keeps vinyl alive". We never hear the basis and support for this idea, as the mystery has to be kept alive. But it just has to be talked about constantly, over and over again.
 

Jaxjax

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And it's still inferior to digital.
Thats like saying redheads are inferior to blondes.
Do you actually think that most of us who play digital & analog sources invest the big $ in vinyl reproduction because it sounds like shit.?
I personally manipulate my digital to my taste & the same with my analog playback. Everyone should do so as life's too short to play the purist game.
 

Snoopy

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Thats like saying redheads are inferior to blondes.
Do you actually think that most of us who play digital & analog sources invest the big $ in vinyl reproduction because it sounds like shit.?
I personally manipulate my digital to my taste & the same with my analog playback. Everyone should do so as life's too short to play the purist game.

Let's take a direct to DSD master. like Mofi is doing. What exactly would be gained by putting that master on a vinyl?

The DSD file on SACD is cleaner and has higher resolution. And a lower noise floor to begin with.

So all you possibly do In that case is lowering what would have been possible with the DSD file.
 

Leporello

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Thats like saying redheads are inferior to blondes.
Not a valid comparison, I am afraid. Digital vs vinyl is not a matter of personal taste since the objective is not to choose the one we prefer but the one which is closer to the original recording. This has little to do with personal preferences.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Not a valid comparison, I am afraid. Digital vs vinyl is not a matter of personal taste since the objective is not to choose the one we prefer but the one which is closer to the original recording. This has little to do with personal preferences.
Oh yes. Because as demonstrated scientifically a gazillion times, digital is objectively and technically better in reproducing the source signal.

So if you perceive it as better, it is personal preference-nothing else. Which is ok-let everyone listen to what they like.

Otherwise please provide some facts refuting the well known and published scientific evidence? An opinion does not count unfortunately as everyone has one.
 

Newman

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Do you actually think that most of us who play digital & analog sources invest the big $ in vinyl reproduction because it sounds like shit.?
…well, at least you must be thinking the less $ versions of vinyl reproduction need big $ added…because they don’t sound good enough yet! :p
 

egellings

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If you like vinyl, then enjoy it. If not, then simply pass it by. I happen to enjoy it, right along with my streamer and audio optical disk player. Also, if you like fiddling around with equipment, vinyl gives you endless hours of that. Digital is a shiny object, since it's nearly, if not completely, perfect. Nothing much to fiddle with, i.e. POOGE, there. If equipment modding is not your hobby, then digital is the best choice.
 

beefkabob

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Thats like saying redheads are inferior to blondes.
Do you actually think that most of us who play digital & analog sources invest the big $ in vinyl reproduction because it sounds like shit.?
I personally manipulate my digital to my taste & the same with my analog playback. Everyone should do so as life's too short to play the purist game.
Yes, I get it, Because you prefer vinyl and shat a ton of money down that rabbit hole, you feel that technical differences don't matter and that it's all just an issue of preference. I am now convinced.
 

Jaxjax

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Yes, I get it, Because you prefer vinyl and shat a ton of money down that rabbit hole, you feel that technical differences don't matter and that it's all just an issue of preference. I am now convinced.
I don't prefer Vinyl............
5k on vinyl rig is not a shit ton as it gets much better/different the more $.
I'm 50/50 on source & all DSP active speakers. As I said, I tune my analog & digital to suit my tastes as I feel everyone should do. Try as you might, you will never get original intent to your ears in any way shape or form. It happens once in mastering & that's it.
 
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MattHooper

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for the majority of consumers vinyl is only a fashion purchase dictated by the media noise generated by the business. 99% don't know what mastering is:

One could say that 99% of music consumers don't know what mastering is. But what does that have to do with anything? They still enjoy music.

Are you suggesting that the majority of vinyl consumers actually get nothing personally gratifying out of listening to and/or owning vinyl records? There's nothing really more to say about the ways vinyl can be fulfilling for them? They are simply media-led zombies?

Literally everything is marketed. My iPhone is heavily marketed. That doesn't mean it doesn't actually provide me with something I enjoy. So just appealing to "marketing" strikes me as facile - it can't be the 'only' reason most people buy vinyl, you have to go further to explain it's appeal, and in fact there are countless news stories, and vinyl-buyer forums where the reasons are attested, and "It's Just Marketing" doesn't cover it.

on this forum of educated people it is even laughable.

What does that mean? I'm not sure what you are referencing as "laughable."
 
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MattHooper

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What beliefs and motivations are we trying to understand?


"Can Anyone Explain The Vinyl Renaissance?"


Sure, quite a few people prefer the sound of vinyl. We all know that, no scientific mystery there. I prefer chocolate ice cream over plain vanilla. No mystery needing explanation there. But many vinylphiles constantly argue as if this was a deep problem challenging our understanding of audio - "something that keeps vinyl alive". We never hear the basis and support for this idea, as the mystery has to be kept alive. But it just has to be talked about constantly, over and over again.

Where in this thread is that occurring? Sounds like a strawman. I don't recall anyone appealing to "audio mysteries" in this thread. (And if someone did, it seems utterly buried by all the commentary not appealing to such "mysteries.")

To explain the Vinyl Renaissance will entail looking at what people are getting out of buying records. And since people have different motivations, the reasons will span all over the place: some buy it mostly because it became trendy and cool (which doesn't in itself entail they themselves don't enjoy it too), some even just buy records and don't play them - they like the look and vibe and put them on their walls (usually younger kids). Then there are plenty of people who really get in to playing records, and their motivations span the gamut: some think records sound worse, and actually like the nostalgic aspect of the "crackle." Some think vinyl sounds better, and don't actually like record noise. Some are neutral on the sound quality. Most seem to speak of having a "deeper" more satisfying overall experience playing records, vs swiping through songs on their iphone playlist. Then there's the way "record culture" seems to bring many record lovers together in a way they find gratifying. Etc. We can go on listing the various attitudes towards vinyl among buyers.

So the point is that facile one-note explanations rarely serve to understand a complex phenemonon. Such simplistic explanations tend to be indicative of not really trying to, or wanting to, understand it, and hence they end up looking more self-serving than enlightening; versions of "here's how all those silly people have been duped" where the motivations ascribed are ones that can be desparaged with the implicitly self-massaging: "But Not Me. I'm Not Falling For It."
 

beefkabob

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I don't prefer Vinyl............
5k on vinyl rig is not a shit ton as it gets much better/different the more $.
I'm 50/50 on source & all DSP active speakers. As I said, I tune my analog & digital to suit my tastes as I feel everyone should do as try as you might, you will never get original intent to your ears in any way shape or form. It happens once in mastering & that's it.
5k for a record player is a shit ton. Oh sure, you can spend more. 5k for speakers is a shit ton, but at least there's a chance of getting your money's worth.
 

Newman

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Where in this thread is that occurring? Sounds like a strawman. I don't recall anyone appealing to "audio mysteries" in this thread. (And if someone did, it seems utterly buried by all the commentary not appealing to such "mysteries.")
Every time someone says “sound quality” is the reason they choose vinyl, we are back into “audio mysteries”. It took only 7 replies to the OP for it to happen in this thread. Maybe you didn’t get that far in your research of this thread before shouting “strawman”.

However, EVERY TIME someone makes reference to the ever-present claims of vinyl superiority in sound quality, you are quick to deny that such claims ever happened.
 

MattHooper

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Every time someone says “sound quality” is the reason they choose vinyl, we are back into “audio mysteries”. It took only 7 replies to the OP for it to happen in this thread. Maybe you didn’t get that far in your research of this thread before shouting “strawman”.

No you are just making some arbitrary criteria now for what you will call an "audio mystery."

Again, Leporello wrote "But many vinylphiles constantly argue as if this was a deep problem challenging our understanding of audio - "something that keeps vinyl alive". We never hear the basis and support for this idea, as the mystery has to be kept alive. But it just has to be talked about constantly, over and over again."

That's not true, at least of most of the conversations in this thread. There are all sorts of plausible ways in which the vinyl signal can be distorted vs the digital version, and plenty of been cited - everything from differences in mastering, in EQ for the master, in cross-talk, frequency response variations in the playback equipment, various forms of distortion picked up by the needle (the inherent imprecision of tracing vinyl grooves vs digital), etc etc.

All these can alter the sound, it's not like it's some Deep Mystery how vinyl can sound different!

And then, in terms of sound, it may be the case some prefer the effects of some distortions. (Some may not, and some may be fooled in to thinking they do...)

However, EVERY TIME someone makes reference to the ever-present claims of vinyl superiority in sound quality, you are quick to deny that such claims ever happened.

Like who?

Would you perhaps be referencing Atmosphere? I haven't agreed with everything he's written, but on the subject of the sound quality between digital and vinyl he made it pretty clear here: "You can say how much better digital is and I won't argue that its better. I argue that its not better enough. "

In other words, digital may well be capable of better sound...but in terms of how MUCH better than vinyl, that is ultimately a subjective judgement call, and since virtually everyone who buys vinyl is also familiar with digital sourced music, his point is that it seems in practice out in the world, digital music doesn't seem to hold THAT MUCH of a sonic advantage to make people dissatisfied with the sound of vinyl. (Which can sound very good!)
 

JP

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Like who?

Would you perhaps be referencing Atmosphere? I haven't agreed with everything he's written, but on the subject of the sound quality between digital and vinyl he made it pretty clear here: "You can say how much better digital is and I won't argue that its better. I argue that its not better enough. "

In other words, digital may well be capable of better sound...but in terms of how MUCH better than vinyl, that is ultimately a subjective judgement call, and since virtually everyone who buys vinyl is also familiar with digital sourced music, his point is that it seems in practice out in the world, digital music doesn't seem to hold THAT MUCH of a sonic advantage to make people dissatisfied with the sound of vinyl. (Which can sound very good!)

That’s a stretch: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lain-the-vinyl-renaissance.32420/post-1324469

First paragraph sums it up, and this is but one of several similar comments.
 

levimax

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Exactly the reason why I'm looking for different CD, DSD and high-res releases of one and the same album to get a version that does not have a dynamic range made for Alexa loudspeakers and ear-buds.
You might want to try the vinyl version especially for older recordings if you are looking for more dynamic range.
 

levimax

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I was in a record store today which was quite crowded and it didn't seem to me that the people buying records were particularly concerned with anything mentioned in this long thread. They ranged in age from about 10 years old to 90 years old and their musical tastes and motivations and shopping styles were as varied as their age range. To me the only thing they seemed to have in common was that they enjoyed listening to and collecting recorded music and find the experience of physically searching for it in a store to be part of the fun. I don't think it is any more complicated than that.
 
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