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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

Holmz

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Even if there's a vinyl resurgence going on, it's a pretty thin sliver of the market. Let's say, incredibly generously, that it's 20% (again, I'm too lazy to research it, so we'll go big). It would be shockingly stupid from a business perspective to provide 80% of your customers with an inferior product in hopes of enlarging that 20%.

Lets consider looking at facts.

In here https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/13/tech/vinyl-records-cd-sales-riaa/index.html it says:
Vinyl records accounted for $232.1 million of music sales in the first half of the year, compared to CDs, which brought in only $129.9 million, according to a report from the Recording Industry Association of America

Note that that percentage equation would be:
(231.1 / (231.2+129.9) ) * 100%
… which looks like it could be a bit more than 20% ?
 

Sal1950

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I don't think that is why he responded that way,
Just to clear your mind, Yea, it was.
I'm glad you enjoy playing with that lathe.
But as a source for SOTA music reproduction, the LP was dead in the water by 1985.
Lets consider looking at facts.
There's a crapload of folk spending huge dollars on $10K power cords and $50k speaker wires.
Only goes to show you how dumb the general public can be.
See my signature. ;)
 

Holmz

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There's a crapload of folk spending huge dollars on $10K power cords and $50k speaker wires.
Only goes to show you how dumb the general public can be.
See my signature. ;)

Well I spent ~$350 today on cables. Now I need to make sure I have the RCA and XLR ends to attach to them.
And the banana jobs for the speakers.

It will be a shame to retire the lamp cord, as seen In the avatar.

i thought Florida was a place with a higher than average amount of people that like magic and myth.
Staring from at least back with Ponce de Leon and the fountain.
 

Sal1950

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Well I spent ~$350 today on cables. Now I need to make sure I have the RCA and XLR ends to attach to them.
And the banana jobs for the speakers.
That's probably about average for some decent stuff.
I don't get your point?
 

Newman

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Thread Recap

Thought I would celebrate Page 60 with the observation that, I hope, this thread confirms for the reader that the general answer to the thread topic is that the Vinyl Renaissance, and it truly is a renaissance, is largely driven by hipster culture, bolstered by anti-technology backlash including love of ritual and old things, reinforced with inexcusable myth-making about 'sounding better' from the media, and justified by the largely-acceptable sound quality when all the stars align and flaws are overlooked and listener standards are not at the highest level, especially considering the quantum leap in perceptual sound quality from MCH that has left vinyl sound in the dust. And all of which, compounded by the insane price per song for new vinyl, which has ironically created in some minds a Veblen Good attitude of 'it-must-be-best-because-it-costs-most', means this renaissance is probably here to stay, and the battle for factualists will be to continually point out that cognitive bias is causing fans to misrepresent 'sounds-better-to-me' as being something in the sound waves.

cheers
 

Sal1950

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Thread Recap

Thought I would celebrate Page 60 with the observation that, I hope, this thread confirms for the reader that the general answer to the thread topic is that the Vinyl Renaissance, and it truly is a renaissance, is largely driven by hipster culture, bolstered by anti-technology backlash including love of ritual and old things, reinforced with inexcusable myth-making about 'sounding better' from the media, and justified by the largely-acceptable sound quality when all the stars align and flaws are overlooked and listener standards are not at the highest level, especially considering the quantum leap in perceptual sound quality from MCH that has left vinyl sound in the dust. And all of which, compounded by the insane price per song for new vinyl, which has ironically created in some minds a Veblen Good attitude of 'it-must-be-best-because-it-costs-most', means this renaissance is probably here to stay, and the battle for factualists will be to continually point out that cognitive bias is causing fans to misrepresent 'sounds-better-to-me' as being something in the sound waves.

cheers
AMEN
 

levimax

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Thread Recap

Thought I would celebrate Page 60 with the observation that, I hope, this thread confirms for the reader that the general answer to the thread topic is that the Vinyl Renaissance, and it truly is a renaissance, is largely driven by hipster culture, bolstered by anti-technology backlash including love of ritual and old things, reinforced with inexcusable myth-making about 'sounding better' from the media, and justified by the largely-acceptable sound quality when all the stars align and flaws are overlooked and listener standards are not at the highest level, especially considering the quantum leap in perceptual sound quality from MCH that has left vinyl sound in the dust. And all of which, compounded by the insane price per song for new vinyl, which has ironically created in some minds a Veblen Good attitude of 'it-must-be-best-because-it-costs-most', means this renaissance is probably here to stay, and the battle for factualists will be to continually point out that cognitive bias is causing fans to misrepresent 'sounds-better-to-me' as being something in the sound waves.

cheers
Please post links to evidence that backs up your assertions
 

levimax

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Thread Recap

Thought I would celebrate Page 60 with the observation that, I hope, this thread confirms for the reader that the general answer to the thread topic is that the Vinyl Renaissance, and it truly is a renaissance, is largely driven by hipster culture, bolstered by anti-technology backlash including love of ritual and old things, reinforced with inexcusable myth-making about 'sounding better' from the media, and justified by the largely-acceptable sound quality when all the stars align and flaws are overlooked and listener standards are not at the highest level, especially considering the quantum leap in perceptual sound quality from MCH that has left vinyl sound in the dust. And all of which, compounded by the insane price per song for new vinyl, which has ironically created in some minds a Veblen Good attitude of 'it-must-be-best-because-it-costs-most', means this renaissance is probably here to stay, and the battle for factualists will be to continually point out that cognitive bias is causing fans to misrepresent 'sounds-better-to-me' as being something in the sound waves.

cheers
or maybe playing records is fun
 

dlaloum

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Please post links to evidence that backs up your assertions
Here you go:

 

SuicideSquid

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Sal1950

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or maybe playing records is fun
For you, great.
For me it was always an incredible PITA and then returned second class sound in comparison to a CD.
That makes no sense at all to me, you have to be a masochist.
 

Digicile

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For you, great.
For me it was always an incredible PITA and then returned second class sound in comparison to a CD.
That makes no sense at all to me, you have to be a masochist.
Does anybody really care what anybody else listens to on this forum and is it anybody's business? Or you do you just like arguing?
 

Sal1950

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drewdawg999

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or maybe playing records is fun
Yes it is damned good fun, the best! Sonics wise it is shockingly good, and IMO on a clean record is almost always preferable to the digital version. Just watched a video where a professional violin player preferred vinyl as well, citing its presence and texture as presenting a more realistic image. I like that, presence and texture, things that cannot be measured. I grew up on acoustic pianos and believe it or not I prefer piano on vinyl, since my wow and flutter specs pass the torture test, around 0.1% rms. If you don't have warble on your turntable, piano music on vinyl is great. The weight is there, as is the natural decay, great dynamics, and yes, presence and texture.

I'm of the opinion that the theoretical advantages of digital over vinyl are washed away by the real world. In a quiet-ish room, the noise floor is around 35 dB, because who doesn't have a refrigerator in the house? And if listening at a safe yet loud volume of avg 85 dB, peaks of 90, isn't that 55 dB of dynamic range? Great God of SINAD where did it all go? And I just saw this other video testing distortion, and on the music test I could tolerate up to around 8% THD. I have the fan on but still, that's a shocking number to me. Maybe I'm not sensitive to distortion, maybe I like it. But I think the numbers are blown out of proportion and don't accurately reflect the difference in sound between digital and vinyl. There's not much difference in a sighted AB comparison, and vinyl holds the tiebreaker in fun factor and big art, ritualism and fetishism, presence, texture, realism...
 

Sal1950

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Uh huh. :facepalm:

expense.jpg
 

IPunchCholla

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I don't care until people start popping off about how superior vinyl is.
Where is the line for you? I am happy to acknowledge that there is no way vinyl measures as well as digital. I am also happy to acknowledge that vinyl is further from the recording than digital. But I often enjoy listening to vinyl more than digital. On those occasions the experience of vinyl is superior in that it creates more enjoyment. Is it acceptable for me to say "I like it better."? Can that be shortened to "It is better." Why or why not? Can I say "vinyl is superior at giving my music listening sessions a richer experience on occasion"? Can I shorten that to "Vinyl is superior, occasionally."?

I guess I'm wondering how much I have to caveat a statement of preference. Do I have to preface it with "While technically inferior," every single time? Why?

ETA: I wonder how much of this debate is just the way people use the words "better", "superior" and the like referring to either/both preferences and facts.
 

Holmz

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Except that digital downloads and streaming account for around 65% of industry revenue at this point, so that 20% for vinyl assessment is actually pretty spot-on.
You’re probably right.
I consider streaming more like renting the music, as I can only listen when I am paying for it.

CDs and Vinyl one actually owns the music.
(But “music sales” includes music rentals.)
 

SuicideSquid

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Where is the line for you? I am happy to acknowledge that there is no way vinyl measures as well as digital. I am also happy to acknowledge that vinyl is further from the recording than digital. But I often enjoy listening to vinyl more than digital. On those occasions the experience of vinyl is superior in that it creates more enjoyment. Is it acceptable for me to say "I like it better."? Can that be shortened to "It is better." Why or why not? Can I say "vinyl is superior at giving my music listening sessions a richer experience on occasion"? Can I shorten that to "Vinyl is superior, occasionally."?

I guess I'm wondering how much I have to caveat a statement of preference. Do I have to preface it with "While technically inferior," every single time? Why?
"I like it" and "it is better" are totally different statements. I take no issue with the former. The latter is just objectively false.
 
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