Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Mart68]

Good stuff here! Thanks for responding.

To a certain degree I was unfairly using your post as a scapegoat for this threads’s neurotic inability to give it a rest, accept that vinyl, as you say, will always be with us and is not an inexplicable affront to the things this website stands for, and move on from an endless reiteration of reflexive digital-cult hostility.

11,380 posts!

I like vinyl for all the same reasons the vinyl people do. I still kept back one mint SL1200 for myself, just in case.

The only difference is I just cannot get past the drawbacks like they can.

I had this discussion with a pal who has a very expensive and extensively fettled turntable system. I asked him how he got past that constant surface roar that smothers a lot of the fine detail in the recording and whilst he accepted that was the case he still insisted that there was an indefinable something extra he does not get from digital playback.

So, each to his own.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I asked him how he got past that constant surface roar that smothers a lot of the fine detail in the recording

Does it work that way? We can hear into the noise floor and then masking plays a role too. So my understanding is that surface noise doesn’t even necessarily mask detail, unless that detail is well below the noise floor.

The noise floor on my records is always in the -55 to -60dB range. This is much lower than the noise floor in my room even at night. So I can’t hear noise from the record except the initial needle drop. I hear the surface noise when listening on ANC headphones. It disappears ( as in I am listening for the noise and can’t hear it) as soon as there is anything besides sparsely spaced staccato notes or long unchanging sounds. Even a series of the same quarter note on a piano will mask it. But eighth notes with quarter note rests between won’t.

My experience is that surface noise doesn’t mask anything (unless it is really loud). It is simply audible given the right material. That is annoying enough to me that I don’t listen to records via headphones, but over speakers is fine.

 

[J.M. Noble]

My experience is that surface noise doesn’t mask anything (unless it is really loud). It is simply audible given the right material. That is annoying enough to me that I don’t listen to records via headphones, but over speakers is fine.

100% agree with the above.

 

[Leporello]

Nothing new in here, but this article by a young person as to what she has discovered in getting into vinyl ties together a lot of the explanation for the vinyl Renaissance:

The Pull Of The Needle: Why I'm Obsessed With Vinyl Records

In today’s world of instant streaming and digital playlists, you might wonder why anyone would still choose to listen to music on vinyl. But for me, the answer is simple: vinyl offers an experience that goes far beyond just hearing the music.

www.hercampus.com

What she actually seems to have discovered is the act and vocabulary of discovering vinyl - generously helped by AI - with complete lack of originality. All the hallmarks of ChatGPT are there: the curiously impersonal cataloguing style (and this was supposed to be about her obsession!) and banal expressions like "It’s a hobby that encourages both individual exploration and social interaction, with collectors exchanging tips, sharing finds, and bonding over a shared passion for music." Or worse: "In the end, my obsession with vinyl records stems from the unique, immersive experience they offer. " Even 'captivate' is there, the classic sign of AI.

 

[Mart68]

Does it work that way? We can hear into the noise floor and then masking plays a role too. So my understanding is that surface noise doesn’t even necessarily mask detail, unless that detail is well below the noise floor.

The noise floor on my records is always in the -55 to -60dB range. This is much lower than the noise floor in my room even at night. So I can’t hear noise from the record except the initial needle drop. I hear the surface noise when listening on ANC headphones. It disappears ( as in I am listening for the noise and can’t hear it) as soon as there is anything besides sparsely spaced staccato notes or long unchanging sounds. Even a series of the same quarter note on a piano will mask it. But eighth notes with quarter note rests between won’t.

My experience is that surface noise doesn’t mask anything (unless it is really loud). It is simply audible given the right material. That is annoying enough to me that I don’t listen to records via headphones, but over speakers is fine.

I think it masks details of the acoustic the instrument or voice is recorded in. Maybe not all of it, all of the time, but enough to notice.

Willing to be disabused of that notion with evidence to the contrary but that's what I perceive. (And also my pal too and he is the world's greatest champion of vinyl).

 

[levimax]

Saw this on another thread on ASR, the article describes how the soundtrack was done. Credit to @Juhazi for originally linking to the article.

Restoring Led Zeppelin

A hit movie about the world’s greatest rock band turns conventional ideas of audio restoration on their head.

www.soundonsound.com

Agree with the film makers, if you want to hear the sound that made these classic rock albums famous, and sold tens of millions of copies, you need to go back to the original first pressings.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I think it masks details of the acoustic the instrument or voice is recorded in. Maybe not all of it, all of the time, but enough to notice.

Willing to be disabused of that notion with evidence to the contrary but that's what I perceive. (And also my pal too and he is the world's greatest champion of vinyl).

Do you mean the reverb of the room? The acoustic signature of the space where the recording happened? If so I’ll have to think about that.

 

[MatrixS2000]

CD to guarantee access in the future and to guarantee access to the mastering of their choice in a format that, unlike vinyl, offers 'pure, perfect sound forever'.

Not my experience with CDs.

For example - The Smashing Pumpkins - The Airplane Flies High Boxset on CD.
The first CD:


Not what I would call pure and perfect sound forever:

I think it masks details of the acoustic the instrument or voice is recorded in. Maybe not all of it, all of the time, but enough to notice.

I do agree with this. As shown earlier in this thread:

With no surface noise attenuation:

With surface noise attenuation:

 

[Mart68]

Not my experience with CDs.

For example - The Smashing Pumpkins - The Airplane Flies High Boxset on CD.
The first CD:
View attachment 441580View attachment 441581View attachment 441582View attachment 441583View attachment 441584View attachment 441585View attachment 441587

Not what I would call pure and perfect sound forever:
View attachment 441588

That's the mastering though, not the format.

 

[MatrixS2000]

That's the mastering though, not the format.

For sure, but that is what you get on the format. No one here will argue that vinyl is the superior format, we all know it is not. But the content on the superior digital format may not be superior.

 

[DSJR]

I think it masks details of the acoustic the instrument or voice is recorded in. Maybe not all of it, all of the time, but enough to notice.

Willing to be disabused of that notion with evidence to the contrary but that's what I perceive. (And also my pal too and he is the world's greatest champion of vinyl).

Compression in the cutting usually makes up for that I'd suggest. One reason why a wide-open digital transfer (and back in the day, master tape copies we had) can sound 'dry' to the uninitiated...

 

[Robin L]

Compression in the cutting usually makes up for that I'd suggest. One reason why a wide-open digital transfer (and back in the day, master tape copies we had) can sound 'dry' to the uninitiated...

A Symphony Orchestra typically sounds "drier" in person than on a recording.

 

[MattHooper]

I think it masks details of the acoustic the instrument or voice is recorded in. Maybe not all of it, all of the time, but enough to notice.

Willing to be disabused of that notion with evidence to the contrary but that's what I perceive. (And also my pal too and he is the world's greatest champion of vinyl).

When I received my current high-quality turntable one of the first things I was amazed at was the quietness of records relative to what I was used to. And the level of resolution. There was a CD like “ the most minute, distant details would receded into a quiet background.”

I am very rarely aware of background noise while listening.

I am most aware when it’s there for very quiet passengers in symphonic music.

However, I have noted before, direct comparisons with the same music on CD shows the CD to have just a bit more fine resolution in some respects. Like if there is an ultra ultra faint bit of reverb on a track or instrument, it will be easier to hear on the CD.

On the other hand, some details are more easy to hear on the vinyl versions.

So overall, my take is that the CD has audibly finer resolution overall, but it can be sort of give-and-take in terms of the subjective effects of the vinyl playback.

 

[MattHooper]

BTW…(and not looking to get political at all)…

I wonder what the new economic outlook for the world will mean for the vinyl revival.

I’m not sure how tariffs hit vinyl coming from the USA (?)

And also whether tariffs and a possible economic downturn would affect vinyl sales.

We know that vinyl sales went up during the pandemic. But as I remember people said that had something to do with people having lots of time off and also having spare money.

But if we have an economic downturn, and also the tariffs stay on, I would think it would mean people would back on big expenditures, and also scale back on spending money on trips or going out to dinner, etc. or movies. And then if they were spending more time, perhaps they will indulge more in doing things like listening to records. So maybe SALES will stay steady or even improve.

On the other hand, maybe the economy will mean that even records will be seen by vinyl enthusiasts as a purchase extravagance and they will scale back.

Any predictions?

 

[Deleted member 20765]

A Symphony Orchestra typically sounds "drier" in person than on a recording.

I think that depends on the venue. I've been to the San Francisco Opera House (many, many times for opera and symphonies) and the Seattle Opera House (a few times for opera).

The SF opera house has very warm sound. Everything is mellow. The design is from the 1930's and has excellent characteristics. It is heavily carpeted. including the back and seats of the chairs.

The Seattle opera has a more neutral sound. I would not call it dry, but definitely drier than in SF. It has a concrete floor and a modern design.

I enjoy both, but SF is my favorite. I have been working on reproducing this sound with my system. I'm getting closer.

 

[Robin L]

I think that depends on the venue. I've been to the San Francisco Opera House (many, many times for opera and symphonies) and the Seattle Opera House (a few times for opera).

The SF opera house has very warm sound. Everything is mellow. The design is from the 1930's and has excellent characteristics. It is heavily carpeted. including the back and seats of the chairs.

The Seattle opera has a more neutral sound. I would not call it dry, but definitely drier than in SF. It has a concrete floor and a modern design.

I enjoy both, but SF is my favorite. I have been working on reproducing this sound with my system. I'm getting closer.

I went there a lot of times back when I worked in a CD shop and got promo tickets. You're right, the sound there is mellow. Herbst theater, right next door, is almost identical and very similar sounding. However, other venues can offer up a drier acoustic. Davies Symphony Hall manages to be blurry and veiled in most seats, spectacular in others. Zellerbach Hall is a real mess. Guess it all depends. I notice the use of digital reverb on a lot of CD reissues of recordings from the 1950s/1960s. So, the Szell/Cleveland Epic CD/Streaming reissues have a bigger, smoother hall sound than the originals on LP. This veils the sound a little.

 

[KLi]

It is similar to videogames. I once bought a very nice copy of the game X3. It came in a nice box, had a thick manual with nice artwork. It had a smell, mhmm, I remember even today. Frankly the whole surrounding was better than the game itself. There is no comparism to a Steam release, even if that includes the latest patches and all. Digital is somewhat disposible, I guess.

 

[Mart68]

When I received my current high-quality turntable one of the first things I was amazed at was the quietness of records relative to what I was used to. And the level of resolution. There was a CD like “ the most minute, distant details would receded into a quiet background.”

I am very rarely aware of background noise while listening.

I am most aware when it’s there for very quiet passengers in symphonic music.

However, I have noted before, direct comparisons with the same music on CD shows the CD to have just a bit more fine resolution in some respects. Like if there is an ultra ultra faint bit of reverb on a track or instrument, it will be easier to hear on the CD.

Pretty much my take on it and yes it's the quieter bits. For example if a song starts with the singer acapella I hear the vocal booth or whatever the recorded acoustic is, that's just not there on vinyl. I have a Moth vacuum cleaning machine so the most of the records are pristine in terms of dust or dirt, and most are 'first pressings' bought on original release - but even so.

I have maybe 100 albums on both CD and vinyl and there's only a couple where I think the vinyl is 'better' overall.

 

[antcollinet]

A Symphony Orchestra typically sounds "drier" in person than on a recording.

Try listening in a 1000 year old stone built cathedral. Longest reverb of any venue I've heard. (Gloucester Cathedral/Vivaldi Four Seasons)

 

[DSJR]

The kind of 'halo' that many vinyl setups add to the playback isn't the same though, especially hard panned L or R 'heard' on the other channel, if you understand what I mean. Got to say though, that a Rega Planar 10 with Apheta 3 pickup and played into their top phono stage, sounded to me more 'digital' than digital does Some feat really...