Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[MatrixS2000]

Playlists evolved from mixtapes. And mixtapes were made by patient, tweaky folk like me, carefully cuing with one hand while engaging "record" with the other.

Yes, I know - that is why I said this in the exact same quote you quoted:

The closest thing in the vinyl world is a purchased assorted album that someone else curated for the masses (ie it is not personalized to you) or stepping outside of the vinyl world for playback and creating your own mix tape.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Playlists do not exist in the vinyl world? Ask any DJ who worked with records.

This is not a playlist.

 

[MatrixS2000]

I feel like we are now saying one HAS to listen to a whole side (segment) of an album on vinyl based on being "Forced" to, due to lack of wanting to get out of a chair and use the cue lever. OR fear of damaging the stylus or vinyl from constantly moving tonearm to songs one prefers.

I don’t think that - it has been pointed out several times that you can get up and skip a song or switch albums at any time with vinyl also - it’s just more work than pushing a button.

 

[Galliardist]

This is not a playlist.

Good DJs use set lists so they can match BPM and mood in their mixes, and what is a set list but a playlist? One chosen with extra knowledge and skill, in fact.

My own example from., what, 45 years ago now, was simply making the point that you can do what was suggested and play tracks with quick changes on a single deck. That's not proper DJing by any kind of modern standard, but that was not what was expected with the music I was involved with.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Good DJs use set lists so they can match BPM and mood in their mixes, and what is a set list but a playlist? One chosen with extra knowledge and skill, in fact.

Sure that is another context for the use of the word “playlist”. It is not the one we are using in this discussion. For example this is the context of your DJ and this discussion together; can you come over to my home tonight and create a playlist for me to listen to? Oh and you will need to do all the work involved in playing that playlist on vinyl for me. I can safely assume, it is not something you would be interested in doing. I wouldn't do it for myself!

My own example from., what, 45 years ago now, was simply making the point that you can do what was suggested and play tracks with quick changes on a single deck. That's not proper DJing by any kind of modern standard, but that was not what was expected with the music I was involved with.

You also said you were under pressure and slipped in entire sides. Not really what I am looking for when I just want to listen to a mixed playlist of music. You just simply cannot do this easily with vinyl playback. Digital has this (ease of use) win each and every time. But with that win, comes the higher probability of skipping songs or jumping to another artist. Since vinyl was said to have this “advantage” of fostering a more steady listening environment, the digital defenders jumped on top and started to rip vinyl down again by saying you can do the same in digital - something that was never denied.

So all of you defending that digital can do this (fosters a more steady listening environment) too, really don’t see how this is feeding into @HalSF’s comment about digital cult tribalism?

 

[pkane]

You just simply cannot do this easily with vinyl playback.

 

[Robin L]

So all of you defending that digital can do this (fosters a more steady listening environment) too, really don’t see how this is feeding into @HalSF’s comment about digital cult tribalism?

Nope.

About 95% of what I listen to is classical, longer works, sometimes longer than a single LP side. So, for me most of the time, the issue of playlists doesn't come into play, it's a red herring. If one really wants to listen to longer works, then digital playback is superior. And that isn't about any "digital cult", it's simple math. One format is more or less limited to around 20 uninterrupted minutes. CDs are limited to a little over 80 minutes and if I want to hear the entirety of Bach's Well Tempered Clavier without interruption than streaming can do that.

The idea that there's some "digital cult" is crazy. Again, people like what they like. One calling such things a cult is going to a paranoic extreme. One can just as easily talk about a "vinyl cult".

 

[MatrixS2000]

View attachment 435998

Thanks for making my point! You just cannot do this easily with vinyl. You will need:

1 - A purpose built record player that can play multiple pieces of vinyl
2 - You need every one (or 2 if you count the b side) of your songs on an individual piece of vinyl
3 - If you do count the b side and want to listen to it, you will either have to buy a second copy so you can stack the b side and the a side or you are back to fishing out the particular 45 from the stack and re-stacking it so the b side can be played.
4 - God help you if you don’t want to listen to the entire b side in a single stack.
5 - You don’t care about the wear and tear of dropping one record on to another

 

[pkane]

Thanks for making my point! You just cannot do this easily with vinyl. You will need:

1 - A purpose built record player that can play multiple pieces of vinyl
2 - You need every one (or 2 if you count the b side) of your songs on an individual piece of vinyl
3 - If you do count the b side and want to listen to it, you will either have to buy a second copy so you can stack the b side and the a side or you are back to fishing out the particular 45 from the stack and re-stacking it so the b side can be played.
4 - God help you if you don’t want to listen to the entire b side in a single stack.
5 - You don’t care about the wear and tear of dropping one record on to another

But that's the point of vinyl and the reason for renaissance: it's hard to use and you have to work for it. Digital playlists are too easy. It gets boring

 

[MatrixS2000]

About 95% of what I listen to is classical, longer works, sometimes longer than a single LP side. So, for me most of the time, the issue of playlists doesn't come into play, it's a red herring. If one really wants to listen to longer works, then digital playback is superior. And that isn't about any "digital cult", it's simple math. One format is more or less limited to around 20 uninterrupted minutes. CDs are limited to a little over 80 minutes and if I want to hear the entirety of Bach's Well Tempered Clavier without interruption than streaming can do that.

Absolutely, I do the same. I will go one step further, it's much easier to listen to an entire discography from an artist on a digital format - something I do often.

Although you and I and probably many others here listen to entire albums on digital formats, you cannot deny that playlist are a popular feature of digital playback.

You just simply cannot do this easily with vinyl playback. Digital has this (ease of use) win each and every time.

Preaching to the choir Robin.

The idea that there's some "digital cult" is crazy. Again, people like what they like. One calling such things a cult is going to a paranoic extreme. One can just as easily talk about a "vinyl cult".

Really???….Maybe you need to review this thread and revisit the above statement because there seems to be a lot of paranoia around a vinyl advantage of any sort. It is always met with “digital can do <insert vinyl advantage here> too”.

 

[waofner]

when i prepare the album, brush it, put the needle on-
i give a sh.. to sinad(etc.) and enjoy the music with a smile.


Adam S3V,Yamaha RN2000a, Rega Aria, Thorens 2001, (Rega RP10 with Apheta3 only as reference for the Thorens)

 

[Donnie Mulligan]

I'm a member of a couple of reddit audiophile threads where people post pictures of their rigs and most of the time they include turntables and every time I see one my mind is blown because I outgrew vinyl only a few years after buying my first CD player in the '80's. Back then I had a tape deck, a turntable and a CD player but once I heard digital I knew they was no going back yet people en mass are and I find it baffling given all the benefits of youtube. The first and most obvious benefit is, it's free. Secondly, youtube has an almost endless catalog of music, with the original music video, the karaoke versions of songs, live versions and videos that include the lyrics. Thirdly, the convenience of simply clicking my mouse a few times and opening up a world of music is pretty alluring. I always wondered about the sound quality though so I bought a CD a few years ago to compare youtube to CD and couldn't hear any difference. LP's on the other hand can only be played one at a time, require time, money and effort to obtain and play and also require money and effort to maintain and as your collection of LP's grows it obviously becomes more expensive and takes up space-something youtube doesn't yet most reddit audiophiles are flocking to them

Does the vinyl renaissance make sense to you because it sure doesn't to me

People are fascinated by the nostalgia of the past. I once took a horse and buggy tour through the old cobblestone streets of Charleston. I hoped to share in my forefathers history, but ended up with back damaging, snails pace trek, filled with horse farts. History is just that, History. Embrace the now, Digital Baby.

 

[AdrianusG]

Nope.

About 95% of what I listen to is classical, longer works, sometimes longer than a single LP side. So, for me most of the time, the issue of playlists doesn't come into play, it's a red herring. If one really wants to listen to longer works, then digital playback is superior. And that isn't about any "digital cult", it's simple math. One format is more or less limited to around 20 uninterrupted minutes. CDs are limited to a little over 80 minutes and if I want to hear the entirety of Bach's Well Tempered Clavier without interruption than streaming can do that.

The idea that there's some "digital cult" is crazy. Again, people like what they like. One calling such things a cult is going to a paranoic extreme. One can just as easily talk about a "vinyl cult".

Apparently choosing the best that playback has to offer aka Digital! (apart from loudness wars/compression victims), which btw. is a deliberate choice, not a consequence of digital, is cult behavior, but resorting back to older, (but still good enough) tech of yesteryear isn't??

Like i said, I can and will enjoy both (LP's once in a while), but simply prefer digital most of the time.
just enjoy the music by whatever means, and the weekend of course

 

[J.M. Noble]

People are fascinated by the nostalgia of the past. I once took a horse and buggy tour through the old cobblestone streets of Charleston. I hoped to share in my forefathers history, but ended up with back damaging, snails pace trek, filled with horse farts. History is just that, History. Embrace the now, Digital Baby.

If you're going to analogize, then so will I: you took an 8-track tour, not a vinyl tour.

Vinyl would be driving a sweet 1960s sports car around Charleston. It wouldn't be as smooth as your digital Tesla, but it would be much more fun in a lot of ways.

 

[AdrianusG]

when i prepare the album, brush it, put the needle on-
i give a sh.. to sinad(etc.) and enjoy the music with a smile.


Adam S3V,Yamaha RN2000a, Rega Aria, Thorens 2001, (Rega RP10 with Apheta3 only as reference for the Thorens)

Looks like a nice setup, enjoy

 

[AdrianusG]

Apparently choosing the best that playback has to offer aka Digital! (apart from loudness wars/compression victims), which btw. is a deliberate choice, not a consequence of digital, is cult behavior, but resorting back to older, (but still good enough) tech of yesteryear isn't??

Like i said, I can and will enjoy both (LP's once in a while), but simply prefer digital most of the time.
just enjoy the music by whatever means, and the weekend of course

Sorry Robin L

I see now my above comment should have been addressed at HalSF,
and it should be noted that i have nothing against the "vinyl renaissance", it's just not for me, specially with current prices! although I now and then play the albums I still have from way back, and yes I even enjoy them when I do, they can still sound amazingly good.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Vinyl would be driving a sweet 1960s sports car around Charleston. It wouldn't be as smooth as your digital Tesla, but it would be much more fun in a lot of ways.

Although not quite a 1960s sports car, I would take this 1972 Ferrari 312B over any Tesla everyday of the week and twice on a Grand Prix Sunday!

 

[MattHooper]

I feel like we are now saying one HAS to listen to a whole side (segment) of an album on vinyl based on being "Forced" to, due to lack of wanting to get out of a chair and use the cue lever. OR fear of damaging the stylus or vinyl from constantly moving tonearm to songs one prefers.

Back when I had ONLY vinyl, I considered that a huge downside and would often drift out of the room during the couple songs I did not like, then maybe come back in as soon as one I loved started. I am not sure that is an advantage in reality.

I simply never devoted 20 minutes of solid time to listening to a few songs I loved and a few I did not care for, due to lack of inconvenience.

That’s a good point in favour of someone who would prefer streaming. If you’re not inclined to want to sit through tracks that you might not care for on an album, the appeal of being able to skip tracks or especially playlists are obvious. If you dial up playlist, then you know you like every single track.

I can see how that works for some people.

It didn’t quite work for me, because I found that with streaming, even though I had saved many favourites and created some playlists, the lure of the “ new track” at my fingertips at any moment was too much to resist.

When it came to my ripped CD collection It was rare for me to listen to a whole album, but I would often listen to several tracks from an album that I wanted to revisit.

When it came to streaming, I found myself often not even getting through full tracks!

But with vinyl my mindset completely changes and I have no problem listening to a full side or album.

That said, because vinyl is more expensive and less easy to acquire than music on streaming, it tended to force me to carefully curate my purchases. Due to the Magic of the Internet, I was able to audition all the tracks in various albums before choosing which one to purchase. I would not buy a vinyl record if I didn’t like a majority of the tracks or couldn’t see myself playing pretty much the whole thing. So that way, my albums are pre-selected for full album satisfaction. And then as I say, the various features that are part of owning and playing a vinyl record, as well as the inability to skip tracks, encourages my attentive listening.

It’s obviously ultimately down to what works for an individual.

 

[MattHooper]

Exactly that, hence my comment that "not skipping" would be a good reason to turn to vinyl is not valid per-se, it is and has been available many decades with CD's, that's all i meant.
If someone wants to go back to vinyl (for whatever reason!), fine by me.

Well turning to vinyl so as to help focus attention and resist skipping tracks isn’t of course for everybody. No solution is.

But there are clearly good reasons why this “ encourages more relaxed and focused, listening “ aspect shows up again and again among vinyl enthusiasts.

It’s simply a fact that how you experienced something can change the experience.
There are all sorts of aspects of buying and playing a record that encourages a sense of investment and attachment to the physical object and the music on that object. Everything from the vinyl generally requires a greater commitment in terms of money, and often searching for and even physically having to go out and find and buy the item.
Right down to the sense of connection of opening up the record, holding it in your hands, the owning of and certain amount of care for a turntable, placing the record on the turntable, usually with the expectation you’re going to be listening to more than one track track, etc.

These are the type of factors that really do influence experiences in human beings.
So it’s understandable the theme comes up over and over about how vinyl encourages a somewhat different mindset during the listening process from streaming.

To acknowledge these facts doesn’t mean that every single person would have the same experience. People have different criteria.
But it explains why many people do have this experience.

Can this same difference I’ve experience be achieved with another physical format like CD?

Yes. Some people find CDs themselves to be a desirable form of physical media.

Here’s a photo of somebody’s CD collection from the CD collectors Reddit:

So clearly some can have a connection to the physical media. I think in the majority of cases it doesn’t take the level of commitment vinyl can, but it still something you have to put in a CD player.
So I can see how listening to CD can also help focus somebody’s attention more more than streaming.

On the other hand, with most CD players, you’ve got a remote so you can easily skip tracks, unlike with a record. And also, it’s hard to know whether CDs compete quite as well with vinyl in the “ I enjoy it because it helps me better focus attention through entire albums vs streaming ” aspect. This comes up routinely with vinyl, but I don’t see it nearly as much from what I’ve seen from CD collectors.

I just went through a thread on Reddit with over 500 comments about why music enthusiasts were collecting CDs. There was the occasional “ I tend to listen to a full album when playing a CD” comments, but they were relatively rare. There was a lot of talk about enjoying the physical collectable aspect. But it was also common for people to say they rip the CDs immediately, so they can play them anywhere. Which is quite different from the vinyl experience.

And even in a thread devoted to CD there were people still bringing up why they prefer vinyl as their physical medium, e.g.:

“I decided to switch to vinyl because I feel like I am more particular with it (grabbing whole albums of enjoyment vs. endless cds where I only like 1-2 songs on them). Considering I have a bit of hoarding tendencies, it is better to pick the thing that actually pushes me to be selective.”

 

[beagleman]

I don’t think that - it has been pointed out several times that you can get up and skip a song or switch albums at any time with vinyl also - it’s just more work than pushing a button.

oh trust me I know all of this. I had almost 1000 vinyl albums up till several years ago.

When younger, I did listen to entire sides. Not sure why I felt more inclined at a younger age, but as I got older, simply felt there was not time to devote to an entire side at one time.

Even though I still have 2 tables, and a small chuck of above collection, I just no longer have the patience or desire to deal with all those issues. They are no longer a good thing to me, but an inconvenience.
I do not despise vinyl, but see it as simply something "that was" and had many good memories, shopping in stores with my friends when I was young and so on, but the current vinyl mini revival, simply has NONE of that to me now. I have gone in stores, and its mostly a bunch of old guys and a few trendy young people, and HIGH prices.