MatrixS2000
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Queue in poster that had “then there was a miracle” as his avatar...So analog and digital processing joining forces so everybody happy.![]()
Queue in poster that had “then there was a miracle” as his avatar...So analog and digital processing joining forces so everybody happy.![]()
Agreed with everything you said up to this point. I don’t think any of us can say for certain whether it is or isn’t; we’re simply speculating. To obtain that information, we need to ask the right questions in order to generate data for analysis. I think this is the only thread that has asked that question.And as Galliardist has pointed out, sound quality isn't the most important factor for the continuation of the LP as a format for recorded music.
Ok, can you point me to that?That’s certainly true — recent polling backs up anecdotal evidence that sound quality is not a major driver of the renaissance.
Starting around 1979 LPs were mastered (for the most part) using a digital "look-ahead" stage, so one can't say LPs were "all analog" late 70s through mid 80s.An as you compare this format overview you have to take in to account that the newly released music on Vinyl is ( i pressume) a copy of a 100% digital format an for that matter probably also vintage records (released new) that where digitized years ago because the mastertapes or instrument tapes an laquers will not survive over time. It will come close that all formats including vinyl has a digital basis except <70 till mid 80 vinyl releases are truly analog in every step.
Exactly what Grinser try to explain an another million things that could go wrong from start to finish creating a perfect laquer. Worse he mention knoledge to produce a perfect vinyl record is rapidly fading.I do think that is true and a good thing. Cutting engineers and mastering engineers are using Simulathe to create digital samples of what the LP would sound like before even attempting a cut. They provide the digital sample to the artist to obtain their approval, ensuring that time, effort, and materials are not wasted. I posted about this here.
Let me put it this way - people play LPs for a variety of reasons, this clearly doesn't need any further explanation - some think the sound is better, some want collectibles, some like the cover art. There are significant numbers collecting LPs who do not own a turntable. Those who argue that the sound quality is superior are manifestly wrong. Just about all LPs currently in production have a digital stage, the digital files themselves do not have the distortions of the LP transfers. That is easy to demonstrate. So, all of this is not just speculating. Some might find that they like the sound of LP playback more. But for the most part, LPs sound like the sources + distortions that are inherent in LP reproduction.Agreed with everything you said up to this point. I don’t think any of us can say for certain whether it is or isn’t; we’re simply speculating. To obtain that information, we need to ask the right questions in order to generate data for analysis. I think this is the only thread that has asked that question.
Do you view excessive use of limiters as a distortion?Let me put it this way - people play LPs for a variety of reasons, this clearly doesn't need any further explanation - some think the sound is better, some want collectibles, some like the cover art. Those who argue that the sound quality is superior are manifestly wrong.
I know, I have stated several times that digital in the chain is not a problem.Just about all LPs currently in production have a digital stage
I've encountered LPs that are as dynamically crushed as the CDs of the same title. In any case, brickwalling is a choice of the record companies, one that the public in general doesn't notice. A "First World Problem", one of concern only to those suffering from audiophile nervosa. The excessive use of limiters doesn't affect me as most of the music I listen to these days is Classical. If there is a problem with the dynamics of Classical music, it usually is an excess of dynamics like those found in the orchestral issues from BIS.Do you view excessive use of limiters as a distortion?
But there are many who think that analog reproduction is superior because it is analog. When in fact it really isn't. Do you understand what I am trying to say? There are a number of overpriced LPs that boast of an all-analog mastering chain. Some people still think that digital in the chain is a problem.I know, I have stated several times that digital in the chain is not a problem.
Listening now to Hiromi - Temptation 100% digital (recorded on the Sonoma DSD Workstation with EMM Labs Converters) as acspected from Telarc neutral recorded with care it sound almost liqued over my Vandies. Dead silence when it has to be Dead silence. For what it's worth a average DR of 12. Room correction used Mathaudio Room EQ without (bypass) i can shake it due to bad acoustics i guess there is the biggest problem for most of us instead arguing digital or analogI've encountered LPs that are as dynamically crushed as the CDs of the same title. In any case, brickwalling is a choice of the record companies, one that the public in general doesn't notice. A "First World Problem", one of concern only to those suffering from audiophile nervosa. The excessive use of limiters doesn't affect me as most of the music I listen to these days is Classical. If there is a problem with the dynamics of Classical music, it usually is an excess of dynamics like those found in the orchestral issues from BIS.
But there are many who think that analog reproduction is superior because it is analog. When in fact it really isn't. Do you understand what I am trying to say? There are a number of overpriced LPs that boast of an all-analog mastering chain. Some people still think that digital in the chain is a problem.
Maybe you can just ignore it?Dear God, please let this thread die.![]()
Yes, I know, I’ve posted examples of exactly that in this thread and where the vinyl is smashed and the digital is not. But none of the above answers my question, so I will ask it again.I've encountered LPs that are as dynamically crushed as the CDs of the same title. In any case, brickwalling is a choice of the record companies, one that the public in general doesn't notice. A "First World Problem", one of concern only to those suffering from audiophile nervosa. The excessive use of limiters doesn't affect me as most of the music I listen to these days is Classical. If there is a problem with the dynamics of Classical music, it usually is an excess of dynamics like those found in the orchestral issues from BIS.
There are also people that believe the Earth is flat and that humans never stepped foot on the Moon. This is sadly a sign of the lack of critical thinking skills these days. If your goal is to convince them, then good luck.But there are many who think that analog reproduction is superior because it is analog. When in fact it really isn't. Do you understand what I am trying to say? There are a number of overpriced LPs that boast of an all-analog mastering chain. Some people still think that digital in the chain is a problem.
A compressor and / or a limiter are not normally considered in terms of harmonic, intermodulation, transient-intermodulation etc. distortion, because distortion is an unwanted artefact. In comparison, the use of a compressor / limiter is a deliberate act.Do you view excessive use of limiters as a form of distortion?
Nope - it's either an artistic choice or a bean counter's choice. You ever hear overdrive on an electric guitar amp? It's distortion alright, but it's also an artistic choice (one I don't care for). When it comes to mastering for the release of an album or single, it's either an artistic choice or a bean counter's choice. Classical records from the "Golden Age" (1950s-1960s) deployed gain riding - an assistant engineer following the musical score and adjusting level to keep the signal level above the noise floor and below clipping. That's never considered a distortion, though it can be a more severe form of limiting than electronic/digital limiting.Yes, I know, I’ve posted examples of exactly that in this thread and where the vinyl is smashed and the digital is not. But none of the above answers my question, so I will ask it again.
Do you view excessive use of limiters as a form of distortion?
In any case, there are recent re-releases and new releases that boast of having an all-analog chain. And they usually cost a lot more than digitally recorded albums and singles. I'm not sure they really are all-analog on account of the common use of digital look ahead at the mastering stage. And the best digital recordings I've heard are the best sounding recordings I've heard.There are also people that believe the Earth is flat and that humans never stepped foot on the Moon. This is sadly a sign of the lack of critical thinking skills these days. If your goal is to convince them, then good luck.
(just in case the tone of the text may come off as snarky - that is not my intention)
I try, but it continues to garner my attention by migrating up the list due to replies (which, of course this one will only exacerbate). Well over 500 pages already, and growing. Hasn't this topic been beat to death by now???Maybe you can just ignore it?
Neither of which reflects the listener's choice and that is the only decision that truly matters—after all, it's the listeners who are spending their money on the version they prefer. If a listener understands what a limiter is doing to the music and knows that there are versions available without one, then the power to choose is once again in the hands of the listener, where it rightfully belongs.A compressor and / or a limiter are not normally considered in terms of harmonic, intermodulation, transient-intermodulation etc. distortion, because distortion is an unwanted artefact. In comparison, the use of a compressor / limiter is a deliberate act.
So engineers are unlikely to say that a compressor / limiter is a distorter because it is intentional. If a DAC or amplifier which are supposed to be linear over a wide dynamic range, behaved the same way, we'd call it faulty.
Nope - it's either an artistic choice or a bean counter's choice. You ever hear overdrive on an electric guitar amp? It's distortion alright, but it's also an artistic choice (one I don't care for). When it comes to mastering for the release of an album or single, it's either an artistic choice or a bean counter's choice. Classical records from the "Golden Age" (1950s-1960s) deployed gain riding - an assistant engineer following the musical score and adjusting level to keep the signal level above the noise floor and below clipping. That's never considered a distortion, though it can be a more severe form of limiting than electronic/digital limiting.
A lot of people want it louder. It's only "audiophiles" who are concerned. And they are not the majority of the folks buying the recordings.Neither of which reflects the listener's choice and that is the only decision that truly matters—after all, it's the listeners who are spending their money on the version they prefer. If a listener understands what a limiter is doing to the music and knows that there are versions available without one, then the power to choose is once again in the hands of the listener, where it rightfully belongs.
But streaming is the dominant source of music listening these days so the point is moot.I also concede that the majority don’t know what a limiter is doing to the music and will just listen to the louder streamed version. That is clear in the graphs, yet vinyl sales are rising. I also bet that if I removed the word “vinyl" and inserted "high DR digital” in its place the conversation would change.
All of which is irrelevant, unfortunately. If everybody voted with their money and only bought uncompressed releases, then the accountants and artists would change what they do. But the very large majority of consumers don't care, and in fact, many prefer the compressed versions (they can hear the music more clearly in noisy environments, and compressed music often sounds punchier).Neither of which reflects the listener's choice and that is the only decision that truly matters—after all, it's the listeners who are spending their money on the version they prefer.
For lots of people the car is the favored environment for listening to music.All of which is irrelevant, unfortunately. If everybody voted with their money and only bought uncompressed releases, then the accountants and artists would change what they do. But the very large majority of consumers don't care, and in fact, many prefer the compressed versions (they can hear the music more clearly in noisy environments, and compressed music often sounds punchier).