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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

Thank you - I will find and listen to her as Baroque is my favourite classical style.
Her François Couperin is remarkable - until I heard her recordings I though only a harpsichordist - specifically Blandine Verlet - knew what to do with his music. Her version of Bach's Well Tempered Clavier is now my favorite, alongside Sviatoslav Richter's.
 
Because not everyone wants to listen to a brick wall of sound. So if you can’t get that on digital, you go to vinyl as that is the only other source of non-brick walled releases. That simple.
Hit or miss depending on availability, but spatial audio versions are a source for non-brick walled digital releases. If your aversion to brick walled mastering is a big factor driving you to LPs, it’s probably worth giving an Atmos mix a try. Played back with a surround setup or rendered to stereo.

For example, NewDad’s MADRA stereo download, DR5. Lossless stereo version from Apple Music is bricked, as most new rock and pop releases tend to be. So might have bought the record, but the Atmos mix rendered to stereo with Apple Music sounds fine, much better than the lossless stereo stream.
 
Because not everyone wants to listen to a brick wall of sound. So if you can’t get that on digital, you go to vinyl as that is the only other source of non-brick walled releases. That simple.
And this thread has reached agreement on that multiple times, including long discussions, including me saying that it is one of the very few sonic reasons to still keep a record player in play. My whole point: it's a straw man to post here today as if people are in denial of that agreement. You are preaching to the converted.

You seem stuck on this even when you have been shown that there are better tools.
And so I should be, because those better tools are not being used on the loudness wars database website. Which is the source that people repeatedly use to provide 'evidence' of audible dynamics differences. It's the default reference. As long as people keep going to that website to get their data on DR compression, I will continue to point out its invalidity for that purpose. It happened again a few days ago in this thread. So I replied a few posts later. And necessarily so. What's your beef with that?
 
And here is a third scenario. I use streaming to discover new artists. I look for the less well known ones. Listen to them on streaming for awhile and if I like it enough I purchase the vinyl which usually comes bundled with a digital download.
Thank you - I will find and listen to her as Baroque is my favourite classical style.
...and then "purchase the vinyl"??? That scenario you describe would almost certainly be a waste of money and inconvenience with her music, and typically result in audible loss of sound quality.

Which (necessarily, again) returns me to one of my main points: it is only for a specific (but unknown) number of recordings within the popular music genres that this potential advantage for vinyl exists. For any other genre it would be a massive waste of time and money and probably get the opposite result to the desired.

So, back to the popular genres, how does one find these specific recordings? Guess what: there is the TTDR database (uh oh) and that's it, as far as a decently-populated database goes. That's why this is an issue.

And the method you are advocating is a complete waste of time: buy the vinyl first, rip your own copy, then analyse it with a better suite of tools? That's great for numericists, but guess what, you already have the vinyl so can just listen with your ears to make up your mind which sounds better. The aim is prediction. So, how is one to get a hint in advance? Just make an assumption based on listening and analysing the digital alone? Good luck: it will no doubt give you some wins, but pretty poor approach IMHO and I wonder if people using that method would really end up with hundreds of vinyl albums all bought via that hit-and-miss method. More likely a dozen or two maximum, before they decide on better things to do with their hobby time.

Plus, as mentioned above, the recent rapid spread of spatial digital is even endangering the above sonic reason to keep running a TT. It seems to actually have far more headroom dynamics than the vinyl releases. Pretty soon it's going to be time to relegate the TT completely if your reasons for using it are sonic.

cheers
 
The renaissance is easy to understand when some albums you want to own are released as vinyl only in 2024.

This particular album is only available in full on vinyl. It’s not even a complete album on streaming and download services. So if you want to not only own it, but also just hear it this is the only way to do it.



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And here is a third scenario. I use streaming to discover new artists. I look for the less well known ones. Listen to them on streaming for awhile and if I like it enough I purchase the vinyl which usually comes bundled with a digital download.

I could never afford nor WANT all the stuff I listen to on spotify, it would take up way too much room.

Just classical music alone I have listened to many hundreds of albums in the last year, that to actually purchase, would cost a small fortune from Ebay.
Not so much the money, as I am well off enough, but why buy stuff, I might listen to a bit here and there or once or maybe never??


Stuff I truly treasure, I can buy, and add into my collection of CD and vinyl at anytime..
I really did not abandon my physical stuff, nor planned to, but just found something easier and with far more variety.

Like a huge lending library, but I do not have to get in my car to retrieve it!
 
I can (with my current system) use the parametric EQ when streaming, can't with my CDs. So, the sound of streamed music is better than playing my CDs. On top of that I can listen to music and performers I otherwise can't. So, I'm listening almost exclusively to Tidal these days. Still catching up on Angela Hewitt, the Canadian pianist who is one of the great interpreters of Baroque music I have heard, full stop.
Robin, if you are into classical, like me, I am sure you realize there are like dozens or more of every great piece, and just having the ability to sample them all, is amazing in itself!!

Like being Dave Hurwitz in my own home..!
 
Which is interesting in how different people react to streaming. The convenience of streaming led you to mostly abandoning your physical mediums. Whereas the convenience and ubiquitousness of streaming played a part in leading me back to listening to records!
Yes, it can be overwhelming at times, I agree, but to me that is the fun.

I love browsing huge libraries with musical sections, and this is just a greatly expanded library to me.
 
The renaissance is easy to understand when some albums you want to own are released as vinyl only in 2024.
Yep, just ask any Swiftie. And don't forget to buy every different colour of vinyl!
 
Robin, if you are into classical, like me, I am sure you realize there are like dozens or more of every great piece, and just having the ability to sample them all, is amazing in itself!!

Like being Dave Hurwitz in my own home..!
Yeah, wouldn't want to be Dave Hurwitz, much less have him in my own home. My experience is that musicians are better company than music critics, and musicians can be a challenge at times.
 
Taylor Swifts music isn’t vinyl only. It is also on CD and streaming.
Yeah, but she drives LP sales more than any other single performer.
 
Yeah, but she drives LP sales more than any other single performer.
Maybe so but that is not relevant to my post Newman quoted.

I was talking specifically about albums not available any other way. Taylor Swift does not fit that category.
 
And here is a third scenario. I use streaming to discover new artists. I look for the less well known ones. Listen to them on streaming for awhile and if I like it enough I purchase the vinyl which usually comes bundled with a digital download.

For me, that’s not a third scenario, it’s part of my own scenario.

I often listen to my large library of ripped CDs, but I find myself using streaming (whether it’s on YouTube or streaming Tidal or Apple Music on my system) like you, more for music discovery.

If I discover music that I really like, that’s often an impetus to get that music on vinyl.
I often enjoy the experience of owning and listening to vinyl more, for a variety of reasons.

For instance, I am a fan of disco, both original and contemporary versions, and I really liked Kylie Minogue’s last couple of pop, disco albums. If I had left imbibing her music to streaming, I’d be more likely to just stream it in the background, yell to our kitchen smart speaker to play it or whatever.

But in purchasing and listening to the vinyl versions, I enjoyed the “ physical connection” to the album in terms of looking at holding and playing the record, and I also perceived things that I liked better in the sound versus the streaming version. And I am more compelled to sit and listen intently to the album when I play the record version, so I’m really taking in all the details of the music and recording . All of this makes the vinyl versions my go to for my preferred listening experience.

Similarly, I really got into “new prog/math/rock” genre, with groups like Polyphia and Animals As Leaders. When I watch their performances, or check out their music on streaming, I immediately felt
“I have to get some of the records” and again, I just find It really satisfying to interact with the really cool aesthetics of their records, and the sound “slams” just great on my Soundsystem, so there’s a fully rounded aesthetic sense of satisfaction.

I wouldn’t say that nostalgia necessarily is a big component in why I got back in records.
I could’ve satisfied that just playing all of my old moth eaten records on the turntable I had before.

But there is a certain continuity with the past experience which is fun to partake in - that old excitement of “ I can’t wait to get this band’s record” and how exciting it feels to get the physical release in hand.
 
...and then "purchase the vinyl"??? That scenario you describe would almost certainly be a waste of money and inconvenience with her music, and typically result in audible loss of sound quality.

Well, there’s only…*checks*…515 pages of this thread explaining why someone might want to purchase the vinyl record.

But if it hasn’t been enough to get the message, we can keep doing this. Another 515 pages maybe we’ll be there? ;-)
 
Taylor Swifts music isn’t vinyl only. It is also on CD and streaming.
Clearly there are vinyl variations and it seems there are now exclusive bonus tracks, though given that an CD only bonus track didn’t stay that way for long, one has to wonder.

Personally I suspect we’d be better off concerning ourselves with the excellent musicians that can’t get paid than the one singer who has done well?
 
Personally I suspect we’d be better off concerning ourselves with the excellent musicians that can’t get paid than the one singer who has done well?
Maybe, but that's not how the market works.
If Nick Drake were alive today, he could profit off the $30 LPs now being sold off his tiny catalog, but he's not.
 
Personally I suspect we’d be better off concerning ourselves with the excellent musicians that can’t get paid than the one singer who has done well?
I’m not prejudice against any artist. If they make music I like I’ll buy it on any format.
 
No they are not. They are both Tool’s Pnuema. Vinyl first, digital second.

View attachment 417424View attachment 417425


Neither am I, but you are thinking backwards about this. Vinyl does not magically expand dynamics - that would be magic. I never claimed that. What I am saying is that digital takes away DR that could be there by maximizing loudness. Loudness is added as the last step in the mastering process and that is what causes the DR differences. Let me give you another example using the same track as above. I took the same vinyl rip and maximized the loudness. I did not try to match the digital version as I won't spend the time to do that, but it will show that maximizing loudness is what is causing the DR changes. This will be seen in the All Passed Crest Factor measurement below.

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So there you go, vinyl with a reduced DR similar to digital because of added loudness.

If you take that “Loudness Maximized” file you just made and apply the usual things normally added in the preparation of a vinyl master, like mono the bass (yes again), add De-esser, and so on.

By making those processes to the file you will see that enough changes are done to the waveform to make the DR go up by about 3-4 dB, and add to that the possibility that the actual cutting process may also add a few dB to the final DR, and you will realize that most of the changes aren't really adding anything to the actual dynamic range of the music as you already know that your “master file” wasn't that dynamic to begin with.



The above is just generally speaking of why pretty much all digitized vinyl rips will show a higher dynamic range, even when the master used for it was the same dynamically limited master as the digital release.

To me, it looks like your example with the song by Tool has fairly large differences. The digital release have much more bass and the midrange is a bit recessed in comparison to the vinyl rip, and the channel balance is also different. I think the differences are large enough for them to be coming from completely different masters, but with that said, it's still possible that the dynamic range of both releases was comparable before the typical vinyl-rekated processes where made to the vinyl release.
 
Maybe so but that is not relevant to my post Newman quoted.

I was talking specifically about albums not available any other way. Taylor Swift does not fit that category.
Then I should have been more clear. Your example was an album released only a few weeks ago, which you promptly claimed "is only available in full on vinyl"...and, "if you want it in full, vinyl is your only choice"...

Did it never occur to you that your statements are a bit like how a Swiftie would behave? "It has only just come out and if I want the full album..." (like, yeah, if you want it right this minute and not a minute later) ..."it's only available on vinyl!" ...(err, sure, if you like being blatantly manipulated so that your over-eager desperation is converted into the maximum amount of dollars)... "If it comes out next month on digital for ¼ the price, I don't care, I must have it right now!"

What do you think the odds are that an album released a few weeks ago "only on vinyl as a full album" isn't going to be released as a full album on digital in the very near future? Exceedingly low once they have harvested the 'vinyl-only' bucks, is the most likely answer.

Haven't you noticed my recent sig file? Here it is for prosperity (after I change it again):
"This so-called “revival” is really a commercial shakedown of the fan."
"LP = LACKING PERSPECTIVE"
"LP = LAWLESS PROFITEERING"
"LP = LAZARUS PROPAGANDA"
- Eamonn Forde, long-time music industry journalist and book writer,
27 March 2024

Your claim was that the vinyl revival is easy to understand in terms of music only available on vinyl. My reply was alluding to the fact that such claim is really only true of Swifties and their ilk, because so little new music is only available on vinyl for very long, that it could only be used to explain the revival in terms of short-term profiteering of the desperately impatient fan.

I hope that is more clear.

cheers
 
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