Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Mikig]

Can anybody explain why CD sales evaporated? Why these are the CD's "Dark Ages"?*

Maybe because it is a digital format with physical limitations. It is no longer used at home or in cars. Maybe modern computers no longer have a player... if physical format must be more fun then vinyl. The CD and its performances have now been reached and perhaps surpassed by liquid...

 

[Newman]

Can anybody explain why CD sales evaporated? Why these are the CD's "Dark Ages"?*

I guess we have to scratch off, from the list of 'why vinyl' reasons, everything about physical formats except 'bigger is better'.

That would leave us with being hip, retro-love, bias against digital, and a love of tinkering. Mainly. All of which don't apply to CD, so might explain strong vinyl sales but simultaneous with evaporating CD sales.

 

[Robin L]

Maybe because it is a digital format with physical limitations. It is no longer used at home or in cars. Maybe modern computers no longer have a player... if physical format must be more fun then vinyl. The CD and its performances have now been reached and perhaps surpassed by liquid...

Liquid, eh? Gotta look into that.

(Maybe you really meant "streaming".)

 

[Mikig]

Liquid, eh? Gotta look into that.

(Maybe you really meant "streaming".)

yes, of course, we also call it “liquid music”!

 

[Newman]

I do think a very important element of the appeal has little to do with the pros and cons of the sound of the format.

My feelings exactly.

And that is exactly what so bemused the OP: that the distinguishing feature of audiophiles, specifically, is their wish for excellence in sound quality, so why would that group, of all people, and in this day and age, go back to vinyl with their majorly OTT record players that he kept seeing them posting on reddit?

I think he was saying that, if one's wish for excellence in sound quality is allowed to dominate one's choices, then today one chooses non-vinyl.

 

[Robin L]

My feelings exactly.

And that is exactly what so bemused the OP: that the distinguishing feature of audiophiles, specifically, is their wish for excellence in sound quality, so why would that group, of all people, and in this day and age, go back to vinyl with their majorly OTT record players that he kept seeing them posting on reddit?

I think he was saying that, if one's wish for excellence in sound quality is allowed to dominate one's choices, then today one chooses non-vinyl.

But I really think that only a few people are recently drawn to vinyl because of the sound. I think other factors are more likely to come into play, like the cover art, the sense that one has something materially manifest and that one is going to help the artist more with LPs than with streaming. All real factors. Only a few people get the super-spendy turntables. The local record store (Rainy Day Records) sells lots of turntables, but the average price is about $300. The most expensive are high quality vintage turntables, approaching $1,000 or so. But they also carry multiple quantities of Audio Technica's bottom of the line turntables and that's a realistic way of looking at the current market for vinyl and turntables.

 

[MattHooper]

And that is exactly what so bemused the OP: that the distinguishing feature of audiophiles, specifically, is their wish for excellence in sound quality, so why would that group, of all people, and in this day and age, go back to vinyl with their majorly OTT record players that he kept seeing them posting on reddit?

And that’s why as both a member of the Reddit audiophile Groups he mentioned as well as a member here, and as someone with a turntable and taking part in the vinyl Renaissance, I was able to speak directly to his question with my first response:

Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

To be clear, digital music has the *potential* to be better. Vinyl as a format is inherently limited. This, I agree with. For me, digital has the *potential*, but the current implementation is flawed; mainly in the delivery and the reconstruction, but also in the original quantisation...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I think he was saying that, if one's wish for excellence in sound quality is allowed to dominate one's choices, then today one chooses non-vinyl.

It’s interesting that as it happens, the OP’s current concern was comparing vinyl to YouTube. Not that it matters, but I guess it just speaks to how the OP mostly imbibes music.

I do a ton of my music listening via YouTube as well.

 

[Drakon]

Agree. Not a thread of let's chat about the +/- of the two formats. Some however saw it as a red flag against digital and charged.

I took the OP as a deeper why given the choices.

 

[MattHooper]

If I were to think about downsizing my equipment, between CDs and vinyl, I would gladly abandon the CD and give a second life to vinyl.

I think for me a large part of getting back into vinyl was having abandoned so long ago in the first place. I did so in CDs came out in the 80s.

For many years, I’ve viewed it as just an archaic format, and I associated it only with things of the past, Whether it was, the fingerprint laden creased covers of the few records I had left, or the old dusty vibe of used record shops.

But once the record revival was well into gear and tons of newly pressed vinyl was showing up, that totally changed it for me. Digital has been my default for so long at that point, that a shiny new LP actually felt “ new” again. It felt like the discovery. (or re-discovery).

So, when I receive a brand new record that I’ve ordered, it feels like “the new thing” versus all my old CDs. And that’s partially why getting back in records refreshed and revitalized my music collection.

As well as the “ playing with sound aspect” where I can fiddle a bit with the turntable, and also never truly know how a record is going to sound.

 

[Holmz]

It did occur to me to do that. But you would need to ensure the rotational speed of the turntable is absolutely stable and the record is not warped. The reason is - to obtain the transfer function, I would have to align the impulse responses exactly and then subtract one from the other. It won't go well if the timing was slightly different.

One cannot, except maybe with a linear tracker… since a pivoting arm will have a varying playbe speed which is faster than the platter speed.

However one can “digitally resample”, or “dechirp” the LP file to time align it to the original.

 

[Mikig]

I think for me a large part of getting back into vinyl was having abandoned so long ago in the first place. I did so in CDs came out in the 80s.

For many years, I’ve viewed it as just an archaic format, and I associated it only with things of the past, Whether it was, the fingerprint laden increased covers of the few records I had left, or the old dusty vibe of used record shops.

But once the record revival was well into gear and tons of newly pressed vinyl was showing up, that totally changed it for me. Digital has been my default for so long at that point, that a shiny new LP actually felt “ new” again. It felt like the discovery. (or re-discovery).

So, on way when I receive a brand new record that I’ve ordered, it feels like “the new thing” versus all my old CDs. And that’s partially why getting back in records refreshed and revitalized my music collection.

As well as the “ playing with sound aspect” where I can fiddle a bit with the turntable, and also never truly know how a record is going to sound.

nice words, nice experience and excellent point of view.
A little humanity is always nice. The old that becomes new, the experience that overwhelms the cold physics of things, the "playing around" that adds a fun involvement on the final result, listening.
Surely the digital convenience takes away a little sense of participation and "feeling" from the final experience.
In my audio journey I have made many choices, like all of us: now I find myself with a system, that has achieved the goal to my ears.... (I'm not golden, don't worry) but I agree with your thought: I also need some rediscovery, that today would be done with a different background and so I'm starting to make a new room with a new system that will probably lead me to reuse the vinyl,
in a different way than before. Alternative. I no longer seek the performance of digital in vinyl, but would rather like to make it become a sort of archive experience of music that I love to consume slowly with a new listening setting... that return to the game that frankly I miss a bit with my reference system...

 

[MattHooper]

nice words, nice experience and excellent point of view.
A little humanity is always nice. The old that becomes new, the experience that overwhelms the cold physics of things, the "playing around" that adds a fun involvement on the final result, listening.
Surely the digital convenience takes away a little sense of participation and "feeling" from the final experience.
In my audio journey I have made many choices, like all of us: now I find myself with a system, that has achieved the goal to my ears.... (I'm not golden, don't worry) but I agree with your thought: I also need some rediscovery, that today would be done with a different background and so I'm starting to make a new room with a new system that will probably lead me to reuse the vinyl,
in a different way than before. Alternative. I no longer seek the performance of digital in vinyl, but would rather like to make it become a sort of archive experience of music that I love to consume slowly with a new listening setting... that return to the game that frankly I miss a bit with my reference system...

I think what you and some others have been getting it is that, we all have digital music available to us now. It’s ubiquitous, it’s the default. Every member in this thread also has a digital source for music.

But once you’ve heard that pristine sound, you’ve got it. It’s not going away. Yet there can still be more to the hobby if you want.
Audio equipment can just be interesting - all sorts of audio equipment. Understanding tweaking and manipulating even an older technology like vinyl can be fun and rewarding too. As well as collecting music in another form. You may have on one hand Streaming access to an astounding amount of recorded music. But on the other hand, perhaps building up a much smaller, highly curated LP collection, that represents some more effort and consideration and perhaps expense on your part, and which gives a somewhat different experience, so that’s another added thing of value in your life.

 

[EJ3]

So agree. This is why it's not a matter of if I will replace my decades old turntable but with what. I feel with the technology the law of diminishing returns drops off rapidly.

I suspect that my Technics SL-M3 may outlast me.
I could fall back on my DUAL 1229 for a while, though.

 

[Galliardist]

Can anybody explain why CD sales evaporated? Can anyone explain why are these the CD's "Dark Ages"?*

For the same reason LP sales fell off a cliff in 1991. Sales dropped a bit, as a long term trend, and a lot of stores estimated that sales would drop off a cliff and got out. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In the CD case, some specialist stores operating on tight margins in the classical area went under on a fairly small drop off in sales. For some mainstream stores, margins on different formats determined that switching to stocking a lot more LPs was a no-brainer. There's still a demand for new CDs but as they become harder to buy than the alternative, streaming, people don't pursue online sales and such.

As I've pointed out before, there was always an unmet demand for LPs during the fallow period, people were still buying whatever was available, new or used. New turntable sales stayed consistent from just after the drop off and for most of the "renaissance" period which I suggest is an indication of a continued demand for LP playback.

I can't yet see if CD is in the same state. I would suggest that CD sales remain a bit healthier than those official sales figures would suggest, and also that LP sales may be underestimated in some parts of the world today due to the way sales figures get collated.

I suspect though that CD isn't coming back new sales-wise, because they don't have the same cultural value and the replacement is effectively the same delivery system that is being used for all other digital media. I just don't see the same level of umet demand sitting around waiting to be fulfilled, that was there to kickstart the resumption of LP sales.

 

[Mikig]

I think what you and some others have been getting it is that, we all have digital music available to us now. It’s ubiquitous, it’s the default. Every member in this thread also has a digital source for music.

But once you’ve heard that pristine sound, you’ve got it. It’s not going away. Yet there can still be more to the hobby if you want.
Audio equipment can just be interesting - all sorts of audio equipment. Understanding tweaking and manipulating even an older technology like vinyl can be fun and rewarding too. As well as collecting music in another form. You may have on one hand Streaming access to an astounding amount of recorded music. But on the other hand, perhaps building up a much smaller, highly curated LP collection, that represents some more effort and consideration and perhaps expense on your part, and which gives a somewhat different experience, so that’s another added thing of value in your life.

absolutely, digital is my daily basis: in addition to its convenience and "perfection" it has given me the opportunity to discover many artists that I would never have listened to, many new songs and musical genres different from my old and usual standard. It has had an important role in my recent musical education allowing me to get out of the usual aquarium…
I'm intrigued by the physical archive, on vinyl. What I already have on CD, but that no longer interests me.

now I have the opportunity to explore with new awareness: I no longer have the problems that led me to abandon vinyl a few years ago.
I am no longer attracted by "audiophile" alchemies that always left me with that feeling of listening in the wrong way.
The approach has already become different. On my 1210 I mounted a 2M Bronze, which is fine. I removed the MC and its complications and, when I connect it to the system, I listen to music, in a truly analog way. I no longer listen to the turntable always and only looking for presumed defects or such.
I listen to music.
I'll tell you more: I'm setting the second system on tubes. I want to try to achieve a good result with a different technology!
A, even on this system, SU1 is always connected to the computer

 

[Newman]

absolutely, digital is my daily basis: in addition to its convenience and "perfection" it has given me the opportunity to discover many artists that I would never have listened to, many new songs and musical genres different from my old and usual standard. It has had an important role in my recent musical education allowing me to get out of the usual aquarium…
I'm intrigued by the physical archive, on vinyl. What I already have on CD, but that no longer interests me.

now I have the opportunity to explore with new awareness: I no longer have the problems that led me to abandon vinyl a few years ago.
I am no longer attracted by "audiophile" alchemies that always left me with that feeling of listening in the wrong way.
The approach has already become different. On my 1210 I mounted a 2M Bronze, which is fine. I removed the MC and its complications and, when I connect it to the system, I listen to music, in a truly analog way. I no longer listen to the turntable always and only looking for presumed defects or such.
I listen to music.
I'll tell you more: I'm setting the second system on tubes. I want to try to achieve a good result with a different technology!
A, even on this system, SU1 is always connected to the computer

Yep, it's a sandpit! Play away! I fit in that category too...except I never left vinyl.

 

[Mikig]

last consideration…
a fact makes me laugh nowadays: for years we have been looking for the analog sound of vinyl with digital and the perfection of digital through vinyl…
losing sight of the peculiar characteristics of each of the two systems that have been thus, often judged and belittled without any fault….

 

[deweydm]

Can anybody explain why CD sales evaporated? Can anyone explain why are these the CD's "Dark Ages"?*

*obvious answer - streaming.

I would guess LPs are more differenciated from streaming than CDs in most peoples minds. And maybe CDs weren’t the dominant medium long enough to be an easy signifier of time and place, so we’re not seeing characters in film and TV and commercials play CDs. Not enough nostalgia for the nineties to give the CD any cultural capital. Yet?

And I think part of the appeal of collecting CDs and LPs is visiting record stores. Many stores still carry both, but a lot of record stores I visit regularly have stopped carrying CDs entirely. New CD unit sales aren’t that far behind LPs. About a third less, per the latest RIAA data. Both still negligible compared to streaming. But for the store owners I’ve talked to, the profits on used CDs aren’t worth the hassle now.

It’s not the dark ages for people who do buy used CDs though. It’s the golden age.

 

[Galliardist]

I think what you and some others have been getting it is that, we all have digital music available to us now. It’s ubiquitous, it’s the default. Every member in this thread also has a digital source for music.

But once you’ve heard that pristine sound, you’ve got it. It’s not going away. Yet there can still be more to the hobby if you want.
Audio equipment can just be interesting - all sorts of audio equipment. Understanding tweaking and manipulating even an older technology like vinyl can be fun and rewarding too. As well as collecting music in another form. You may have on one hand Streaming access to an astounding amount of recorded music. But on the other hand, perhaps building up a much smaller, highly curated LP collection, that represents some more effort and consideration and perhaps expense on your part, and which gives a somewhat different experience, so that’s another added thing of value in your life.

I remember tweaking and manipulating... back when I had no money, a Thorens 166 in awful condition came into my hands. I replaced the main bearing, rewired the tonearm (I'm a naturally clumsy person, this was so much "fun") and oh so gently tightened up the arm bearings, with no idea what I was actually doing. I regreased the motor, ordered a new belt and springs (it had different springs when I got hold of it) ,found I couldn't get the requisite foam bungs for the springs, spent ages finding a foam that actually did the job it was supposed to, put it all together, set up the suspension, mounted and realigned the cartridge, then just as I had it finally working some nice people broke into our flat and removed it.

My last turntable spent more time in the shop having motors repaired and replaced than it ever did playing music for me. Every time, it came back completely screwed up and I had to realign everything again.

Oh, yes, I remember tweaking and manipulating and understanding turntables... frankly, if I ever have to do it again, it'll be too soon.

 

[MattHooper]

now I have the opportunity to explore with new awareness: I no longer have the problems that led me to abandon vinyl a few years ago.
I am no longer attracted by "audiophile" alchemies that always left me with that feeling of listening in the wrong way.
The approach has already become different. On my 1210 I mounted a 2M Bronze, which is fine. I removed the MC and its complications and, when I connect it to the system, I listen to music, in a truly analog way. I no longer listen to the turntable always and only looking for presumed defects or such.
I listen to music.

Good point.

It all comes down to one’s personal mindset.
For one person having become used to digital, they would find it hard to put up with the lower quality sound of vinyl and it’s artefacts.

For another person having access to digital anytime you want it is freeing in another way:
Vinyl isn’t your only medium, you don’t have to come at it, thinking you have to try and perfect it, the pressure is off because you’ve already got a more accurate choice whenever you want it with digital, so now you can just relax and enjoy vinyl, warts, and all, without expecting too much from it. A little vacation from digital as it were. (and vacations are rarely perfect).

I'll tell you more: I'm setting the second system on tubes. I want to try to achieve a good result with a different technology!

Welcome to the dark glowing side.

Turntables, vinyl n’ tubes… like milk and cookies!