Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[AaronJ]

The mob to which you reference is one of your own creation as you’ve managed to annoy and mock (either directly or indirectly) just about everyone who reads this thread. You’re discrediting people for their preferences and forms of self expression which is about the most obnoxious thing a person can do. Thankfully for me you can join Sal on my ignore list but unfortunately until you stop being the other turd in this thread’s punch bowl you’ll continue to derail the topic getting reactions out of people.

 

[Mean & Green]

I enjoyed that. Is enjoyment really our standard here, or are we really doing something different? Am I in a "dream state" because this recording comes from inferior gear, then through lossy digital, yet it's perfectly adequate for me to hear tempo, melody, the solos, orchestration, dynamic changes?

I listen to music for enjoyment, otherwise what is the point? Music is an art from to be enjoyed.

For me the better the perceived sound quality the more I enjoy it. I like the fact my electronics are audibly transparent I take some sort of weird comfort in that - but I also realise that beyond a certain point chasing ultimate SINAD is just a bragging right because we can’t hear it anyway. I understand my transducers, listening environment and ears are not perfect and will never be flat, so in the end I have to find the end result in audio reproduction that pleases me.

With a good clean excellent condition record my human ears cannot discern the vast difference in SINAD between digital and vinyl apart from a quiet passage between tracks where some noise can be heard as the needle tracks the groove. With a poor condition record sure it sounds like crap, but listening to music on a very good condition vinyl record without any obvious playback artefacts doesn’t subjectively sound that different to digital, even though the objective measurements would or could suggest otherwise.

That doesn’t put me in the pseudo science, snake oil, fairy dust, (insert any other similar meaning…) category. Far from it. Personally I believe in measurements and subjective enjoyment. I am not alone in this on ASR and being a believer in science and engineering doesn’t mean that we can’t also form opinions based on what we do or do not enjoy.

I probably need to add most of my listening is from digital sources. I’m not on any particular side of the fence with analogue vs digital I can enjoy both. If a gun was put to my head to only choose one way to listen to music forever on my system it wouldn’t be vinyl, but what I’ve said is still relevant.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I’ve been basically only lurking in this thread since my explosion a few months ago. Mostly this thread has been pretty informative about some esoteric vinyl related things. But the recent closure and constant bickering…

I have Newman on ignore. I wish I could do that for just this thread since I find their posts elsewhere to be just fine. But they are very good at getting under my skin and it seems I am not the only one. I honestly think this thread would be much better if everyone simply stopped responding to Newman.

 

[Robin L]

2.- When It l believe that the most probably controversial thing that I do is that on principle I do not buy used records. Obviously lots of people see that as the most practical inexpensive thing to do, and that is without mentioning some of the worship of OGs in some circles (Ken **cough** Micaleff). I tried used and it was just too much work.

100%. When I was awash in vinyl, I'd have weekly trips to the local record stores looking for used classical records. Of course, IGD is pretty much a built-in thing, but used records tend to magnify that specific flaw. And surface noise tended to increase with multiple plays. Again, I no longer play LPs. For one thing, I simply don't have room for them anymore where I live. But the discouraging sound of all of those used LPs is another factor.

 

[Newman]

I could understand it if members here were talking about ‘the warmth of vinyl’ and the ‘glassy sound of digital’ but they aren’t.

"this thread, where the quest for SINAD collides with the feel for "analog warmth"."
"And for those that say they like the warmth,"
"So you never ear (the warmth and fluidity of) a high end vinil system?"
"Some people really like that warm analog sound"
"vinyl wins for me in the pleasure department, with more warmth"
"Higher distortion includes bass distortion, which adds new harmonics, creating the possibility of perception of increased warmth."
"vinyl having some detectable record warble BUT having what seems to be a more believable balance of bow texture, vividness, ease, warmth"

EDIT: further additions in later posts:-
"one point I agree with which is that vinyl can have a certain sound - he calls it warmth, but whatever - "
"but one reason for the 'vinyl warmth' is the frequency response"
"Nostalgia, beeing cool, an some love the warm sound."
"I do think vinyl in general has a warm sound. Dammit, now I'm on the list."

 

[amadeuswus]

(Russia's in)

Russia reverts to vinyl - Slippedisc

The state record label Melodiya is building a...

slippedisc.com

 

[Newman]

I listen to music for enjoyment, otherwise what is the point? Music is an art from to be enjoyed.

For me the better the perceived sound quality the more I enjoy it. I like the fact my electronics are audibly transparent I take some sort of weird comfort in that - but I also realise that beyond a certain point chasing ultimate SINAD is just a bragging right because we can’t hear it anyway. I understand my transducers, listening environment and ears are not perfect and will never be flat, so in the end I have to find the end result in audio reproduction that pleases me.

With a good clean excellent condition record my human ears cannot discern the vast difference in SINAD between digital and vinyl apart from a quiet passage between tracks where some noise can be heard as the needle tracks the groove. With a poor condition record sure it sounds like crap, but listening to music on a very good condition vinyl record without any obvious playback artefacts doesn’t subjectively sound that different to digital, even though the objective measurements would or could suggest otherwise.

That doesn’t put me in the pseudo science, snake oil, fairy dust, (insert any other similar meaning…) category. Far from it. Personally I believe in measurements and subjective enjoyment. I am not alone in this on ASR and being a believer in science and engineering doesn’t mean that we can’t also form opinions based on what we do or do not enjoy.

I probably need to add most of my listening is from digital sources. I’m not on any particular side of the fence with analogue vs digital I can enjoy both. If a gun was put to my head to only choose one way to listen to music forever on my system it wouldn’t be vinyl, but what I’ve said is still relevant.

Nice post thank you. But regarding the bit I put in bold, wouldn't getting as close as you reasonably and economically can to the sonics that the audio engineers carefully crafted for you, be endlessly pleasing? Your goal seems to be inconsistent with choosing something for sound quality that gets in the way of that?

PS your last paragraph applies to me too, and I could just as well have written it as you. Don't be shocked!

 

[Robin L]

(Russia's in)

Russia reverts to vinyl - Slippedisc

The state record label Melodiya is building a...

slippedisc.com

Of course, Russia always was into tubes.

 

[MAB]

I’ve been basically only lurking in this thread since my explosion a few months ago. Mostly this thread has been pretty informative about some esoteric vinyl related things. But the recent closure and constant bickering…

I have Newman on ignore. I wish I could do that for just this thread since I find their posts elsewhere to be just fine. But they are very good at getting under my skin and it seems I am not the only one. I honestly think this thread would be much better if everyone simply stopped responding to Newman.

Agree. To be fair, two are fueling this fight.
Newman + MattHooper
They have trashed this thread in their never ending battle.
I have them both on ignore because of this thread, but it is hard to ignore their walls of text dominating and drowning out all reasonable discussion.
Right after the thread was reinstated, back to the war. I recommend a thread-ban for both, it might allow this thread to stabilize, they have nothing to add except their eternal badgering.
Even better than the mods stepping in, perhaps the two can voluntarily bow out.

 

[AdrianusG]

I listen to music for enjoyment, otherwise what is the point? Music is an art from to be enjoyed.

For me the better the perceived sound quality the more I enjoy it. I like the fact my electronics are audibly transparent I take some sort of weird comfort in that - but I also realise that beyond a certain point chasing ultimate SINAD is just a bragging right because we can’t hear it anyway. I understand my transducers, listening environment and ears are not perfect and will never be flat, so in the end I have to find the end result in audio reproduction that pleases me.

With a good clean excellent condition record my human ears cannot discern the vast difference in SINAD between digital and vinyl apart from a quiet passage between tracks where some noise can be heard as the needle tracks the groove. With a poor condition record sure it sounds like crap, but listening to music on a very good condition vinyl record without any obvious playback artefacts doesn’t subjectively sound that different to digital, even though the objective measurements would or could suggest otherwise.

That doesn’t put me in the pseudo science, snake oil, fairy dust, (insert any other similar meaning…) category. Far from it. Personally I believe in measurements and subjective enjoyment. I am not alone in this on ASR and being a believer in science and engineering doesn’t mean that we can’t also form opinions based on what we do or do not enjoy.

I probably need to add most of my listening is from digital sources. I’m not on any particular side of the fence with analogue vs digital I can enjoy both. If a gun was put to my head to only choose one way to listen to music forever on my system it wouldn’t be vinyl, but what I’ve said is still relevant.

As far as I know, no one here has said anything different, no one has said that Vinyl is superior, in fact quite the opposite, just that they can and will still enjoy it's sound and other aspects of it, despite it's shortcomings.
Sure, this renaissance is in large part commercial driven, but as long as vinyl is not a mandatory monthly/weekly purchase for music lovers, I don't know why some people got so worked up about it.
I enjoy 98% of the time my music digitally (because i know it sounds better, especially via headphones) and the remaining 2% or so from vinyl, that's it.

 

[Platypus20]

C’mon we have to keep it going, I have 500 pages in the pool

 

[Bob from Florida]

I’ve been basically only lurking in this thread since my explosion a few months ago. Mostly this thread has been pretty informative about some esoteric vinyl related things. But the recent closure and constant bickering…

I have Newman on ignore. I wish I could do that for just this thread since I find their posts elsewhere to be just fine. But they are very good at getting under my skin and it seems I am not the only one. I honestly think this thread would be much better if everyone simply stopped responding to Newman.

I hear where you are coming from. I've had Newman on ignore previously, but currently not on ignore. Newman did something to redeem moving off ignore, but I can't remember what that might have been. Although one could imagine Newman hacking away at members accounts late at night busily removing "ignores"! LOL

Currently have this thread on ignore, except for occasionally checking it - like today. Yes, still staying on ignore.
The more pertinent question - at least to me - is why it is being allowed to continue? It was a "Troll" thread from day one - in my opinion - and has certainly fulfilled that mission.

 

[AdrianusG]

Agree. To be fair, two are fueling this fight.
Newman + MattHooper
They have trashed this thread in their never ending battle.
I have them both on ignore because of this thread, but it is hard to ignore their walls of text dominating and drowning out all reasonable discussion.
Right after the thread was reinstated, back to the war. I recommend a thread-ban for both, it might allow this thread to stabilize, they have nothing to add except their eternal badgering.
Even better than the mods stepping in, perhaps the two can voluntarily bow out.

Ehm, why should someone be banned (thus punished!) for posting news and happenings regarding Vinyl in a Vinyl topic?

 

[MAB]

Ehm, why should someone be banned (thus punished!) for posting news and happenings regarding Vinyl in a Vinyl topic?

Neither of those members post news here, just read the past few pages of interactions between these two. They are just trading insults, for months now. If they were both posting in good faith, attempting to have a discussion, I would agree. But that isn't what is happening. Honestly, they are just punishing each other, with the rest of us drug along.

Also, this isn't a news thread, it's a thread questioning why vinyl is experiencing a resurgence. There are technical threads about vinyl on ASR where news, happenings, and measurements are shared and discussed. This is not one of them. I hope they don't invade one of those threads and continue this personal destruction.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I hear where you are coming from. I've had Newman on ignore previously, but currently not on ignore. Newman did something to redeem moving off ignore, but I can't remember what that might have been. Although one could imagine Newman hacking away at members accounts late at night busily removing "ignores"! LOL

Currently have this thread on ignore, except for occasionally checking it - like today. Yes, still staying on ignore.
The more pertinent question - at least to me - is why it is being allowed to continue? It was a "Troll" thread from day one - in my opinion - and has certainly fulfilled that mission.

I hope it doesn’t get closed as there are experts in various fields chiming in and I have learned a ton about DR, vinyl mastering myths and facts, human perception of noise, distortion and distortion masking, historical curiosities, etc.

 

[Galliardist]

(Russia's in)

Russia reverts to vinyl - Slippedisc

The state record label Melodiya is building a...

slippedisc.com

If I may quote:

Opening in the spring the aim is to press 100,000 LPs a year, about one-third of the present domestic market. There is even talk of export potential.

So the vinyl market is 300,000 sales per year. The population of Russia is 144 million people. It doesn't strike me that Russia is that far in.

 

[Count Dacula]

It's not that, it's that you can't stop berating people who enjoy using LPs. It's a sick obsession and really pointless. You do it over and over and over and over. We get it. Maybe it's time to get off that hobbyhorse, give it a rest. It's tiresome.

I'm not into vinyl myself, but when I'm physically present at someone's place and they put music on, I'm really unconcerned if it's vinyl or digital or even live. I could even see where vinyl is welcome after loads of digital fatigue. Often, vinyl is the only medium available for DJ tracks! I would care more about the system itself than the format. So, why would I criticize their source material, when I just want to hang out? People should adopt the same attitude here online. I want to hear people's opinions, but arguing about it is lame. Just say what you want to say, no need to personalize it and be obtuse.

 

[Robin L]

I'm not into vinyl myself, but when I'm physically present at someone's place and they put music on, I'm really unconcerned if it's vinyl or digital or even live. I could even see where vinyl is welcome after loads of digital fatigue. Often, vinyl is the only medium available for DJ tracks! I would care more about the system itself than the format. So, why would I criticize their source material, when I just want to hang out? People should adopt the same attitude here online. I want to hear people's opinions, but arguing about it is lame. Just say what you want to say, no need to personalize it and be obtuse.

When I'm physically present at someone's place and they put music on, they're usually streaming from their phone. I know it's not SOTA, but I also know it's none of my business. And usually, if there's sonic problems, it's most likely downstream anyway. At home I'm listening to CDs through a DAC that measures well enough that I'm unable to hear its contribution to the sound. It's basically the speakers and the room that come into play. It's better than what I'm hearing when I'm listening to music elsewhere, but I also know it's not SOTA either.

 

[Galliardist]

I listen to music for enjoyment, otherwise what is the point? Music is an art from to be enjoyed.

Why can't music have other purposes? I know this is a trite example, but I wanted something obvious. I don't actually believe enjoyment, as such, is the point. Music can move you, challenge you, make an emotional or intellectual point, take you on a rollercoaster journey, calm you... it goes way beyond enjoyment. And if you don't get that, then you are really missing out.

That doesn’t put me in the pseudo science, snake oil, fairy dust, (insert any other similar meaning…) category. Far from it. Personally I believe in measurements and subjective enjoyment. I am not alone in this on ASR and being a believer in science and engineering doesn’t mean that we can’t also form opinions based on what we do or do not enjoy.

The measurements are facts, "believing" in them is an odd thing to do. What you or I do with those facts is another matter. Your subjective reaction is also a fact, but also a personal thing. As for opinions, they need to be kept in some sort of order. In the land of audio subjectivism, reported opinion on "the sound" is the starting place for the denial of the measured truth. That does not devalue your reaction, but you need to be very careful about why you have a particular subjective reaction and the conclusions you draw.

That's all. I didn't intend to specifically put people in a pseudo science camp or anything, just to try to make some of you think about that enjoyment thing.

 

[egellings]

Do I believe that F=mA or do I know it? I think I know it because it's testable.