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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

When it comes to Home Theater, I don’t want to see any of the equipment. My projector is hidden, my Home Theatre speakers are covered in velvet to blend into the screen wall, so they are not seen. Only the screen is visible, which is how I like it.
Either approach doesn't effect the quality with which a movie can be experienced.
At least it shouldn't, if it does your doing something wrong.
That has nothing to do with the projected image or sound quality.

With music being available from a number of sources, we're using different tech's and each offering various level of quality.
Is the ability of being able to hear into the recording, the inner details, minus distortions, and all the rest important to you?
If so why wouldn't you use the source that in the vast, vast majority of cases will come from a digital source,
Yes, if it's "all about the music", all the other "pleasures" of playing with vinyl should take a secondary place in importance.
To actually pay huge amounts of dollars only to end up with a poorer sounding product for the "reproduction of High Fidelity music" in the
home makes no sense to me. If it did I wouldn't have sold off all my stuff 20 some years back.
 
Good point although the accuracy of digital theory is so accurate that we have secure online banking, our PCs using digital theory, streaming, WiFi and Bluetooth etc.
All of which can be hacked and (in various ways) access denied.
I use none of those for banking (and there is no banking, tax info or anything else of financial import on my phone, laptop, tablet or desktop computer).
It's accurate until someone nefarious hacks in, whether it be a bad guy or a bad actor on behalf of their government.
There is a tremendous amount of proof that it happens.
I have more than one friend who has spent a lot of money and years trying to fix the damage that was done.
So, I just take the few extra seconds that it takes to be safer and avoid the "convenience".
 
QUOTE, "...a contraption intentionally designed to perform a simple task in an indirect and (impractically) overly complicated way."

The turntable and technology is mechanical and of such complexity that people can understand the basic mechanical operation with a basic education and that gets them involved as compared to digital which without at the least a education in the digital fundamentals is a mystery to most people.
There are people that love cars appreciate the mechanical side and spend their time under the hood disdaining the electronic interferences. Others love the car are drawned to the electronics and have no idea or care how the engine works. Both enjoy the end result - going down the road.

I enjoy the electro-mecanical side and pleasureable involvement required of vinyl but that comes at a loss of fidelity. I really enjoy working with my hands and love what someone else in this thread called "functional art" referring to a turntable. For me it's like mechanical watches and such. That sort of thing. I admire a technology this old can produce music of the quality it does. Subjective statement.

I also enjoy the digital medium and spend the overwhelmingly amount of my time streaming. Mimimal involvement and boring process but best fidelity.

Often it's just what experience I'm in the mood for. Timewise for me it's the convenience not quality of digital that wins. All the music I listen to in the palm of my hand. I'm rarely positioned perfectly in my listening room to hear any difference anyway. Road noise, garage acoustics, earbuds in the gym etc. If I could remotely clean and flip through my LPs with the ease of streaming who knows . . .
 
All of which can be hacked and (in various ways) access denied.
I use none of those for banking (and there is no banking, tax info or anything else of financial import on my phone, laptop, tablet or desktop computer).
It's accurate until someone nefarious hacks in, whether it be a bad guy or a bad actor on behalf of their government.
There is a tremendous amount of proof that it happens.
I have more than one friend who has spent a lot of money and years trying to fix the damage that was done.
So, I just take the few extra seconds that it takes to be safer and avoid the "convenience".
I have a pretty simple life and use online banking, online tax returns and online shopping. That will end soon because the Canada federal government is going to make tax returns an automatic thing that requires no input from the citizens. :D I think from your past comments that you have a complicated tax return due to your various operations globally etc. I would be very careful as well if I where you but for me online is good enough.
 
There are people that love cars appreciate the mechanical side and spend their time under the hood disdaining the electronic interferences. Others love the car are drawned to the electronics and have no idea or care how the engine works.
My last car was a Midget. Very simple car and I like it that way too.
I enjoy the electro-mecanical side and pleasureable involvement required of vinyl but that comes at a loss of fidelity. I really enjoy working with my hands and love what someone else in this thread called "functional art" referring to a turntable. For me it's like mechanical watches and such. That sort of thing. I admire a technology this old can produce music of the quality it does. Subjective statement.
I like looking at the fine machining and designs of turntables because there are so many types and mechanisms.
I also enjoy the digital medium and spend the overwhelmingly amount of my time streaming. Mimimal involvement and boring process but best fidelity.
I'm streaming to the degree of about 500 GB per month of downloads. So I'm in pretty deep.
There are people that love cars appreciate the mechanical side and spend their time under the hood disdaining the electronic interferences. Others love the car are drawned to the electronics and have no idea or care how the engine works. Both enjoy the end result - going down the road.

I enjoy the electro-mecanical side and pleasureable involvement required of vinyl but that comes at a loss of fidelity. I really enjoy working with my hands and love what someone else in this thread called "functional art" referring to a turntable. For me it's like mechanical watches and such. That sort of thing. I admire a technology this old can produce music of the quality it does. Subjective statement.

I also enjoy the digital medium and spend the overwhelmingly amount of my time streaming. Mimimal involvement and boring process but best fidelity.

Often it's just what experience I'm in the mood for. Timewise for me it's the convenience not quality of digital that wins. All the music I listen to in the palm of my hand. I'm rarely positioned perfectly in my listening room to hear any difference anyway. Road noise, garage acoustics, earbuds in the gym etc. If I could remotely clean and flip through my LPs with the ease of streaming who knows . . .
I am a listener that cherry picks the best songs from the various artists that I enjoy. Even when I had a turntable I would carefully line up several records and have the next one arranged so that I could quickly and efficiently swap out one record for another with the best songs that I listen to and I skipped the rest. I have complete albums bookmarked but I am not committed enough to listen to entire album.
 
I have a pretty simple life and use online banking, online tax returns and online shopping. That will end soon because the Canada federal government is going to make tax returns an automatic thing that requires no input from the citizens. :D I think from your past comments that you have a complicated tax return due to your various operations globally etc. I would be very careful as well if I where you but for me online is good enough.
Yep, right now I am having to deal with a tax/business license thing with the Guam Government (even though I reported it on my USA income because I leased my place out there. Apparently my business license in Guam, to do that (even though it's a 3 year lease) has to be updated annually and I cannot pay the tax ahead for 3 years (because they do not have a way to do that). And they don't seem to want a friend coming and paying the tax to renew the business license. Maybe they will accept a check? Sent to them via "snail mail" (8 days).

As to what you said "for me online is good enough."

And there in is the point (or not) of

the vinyl renaissance:​

What way I want to do things is for me to do and what way you (or anyone else) wants to do things is for you (or them).​

It happens that I like my LP's and don't like fiddling with Turntables, which is why I have a linier tracking T4P arm Technic's SL-M3 TT.​

I'll modify (or have modified) the electronics of many of my things (including the speed range of the TT) but (unless there is something wrong with the TT), I am not doing (or having) anything done to it.​

I will digitize things like my LP's & run digital files that I have uploaded into the stereo system (downloaded not through anything in the stereo system) because my stereo system as it's own solar system, not directly hooked to the rest of the universe by computer.​

Why? Because that is the way I want it.​

You & others probably have and do things vastly different than me. But that is why everyone has choices in how they want to do things and what they want out of the way they do it.​

 
Either approach doesn't effect the quality with which a movie can be experienced.
At least it shouldn't, if it does your doing something wrong.
That has nothing to do with the projected image or sound quality.

I strongly disagree. How an image is presented, can influence our perception and experience. That should actually be obvious.

It’s true that people are capable of getting into a movie even on the crap quality screens (including the old CRT’s we grew up with). But that is different from the idea that careful attention to presentation details does not affect the experience.

I’m as much a Home Theatre fanatic as I am an audiophile (almost 17,000 posts on AVSForum, goodness, help me). And I’ve been pretty fanatical in investigating how to influence perception of an image.

Even back when plasma were relatively new, I was the only person I knew who was masking for 2:35:1 AR and using large black velvet backdrops behind the plasma to increase the pop, dimensionality and immersiveness of the image. Everyone who viewed my house always came away, thinking it was the best flatscreen experience they ever had.

You may think that you are only concentrating on an image, but our perception is also influenced by what our eyes can see around the image as well. (that’s why different coloured backgrounds for this can affect her perception of colour on a screen., as only one example)

In a similar way, I went to town on my Home Theatre. I made my screen wall entirely black velvet around the image, and gradually covered more and more visible items in Black velvet so they would disappear. And every time I did, the image became more immersive and window like. I can play a movie where the entire room is blacked out with black velvet, including the floor and visible ceiling. All you were aware of in front of you is just the image floating in black. and it absolutely does make it more immersive and dimensional - like you can walk into the image sometimes. Pretty much every guest I’ve had over the years who have their own projection based Home Theatre or who’ve experienced other ones, let alone going to the cinema, have expressed “wow” at the experience, because they hadn’t seen a projected image before with that much attention to detail to removing rest of the room.

So as I say, I strongly disagree. Visible speakers, lots of visible drivers or other equipment around the image will affect perception. You’ll notice a difference the moment you remove those visual cues around the image.

(I put a lot of effort into my two channel system also to produce a certain type of experience I’m looking for… Which has left some experienced audio files, shaking their heads saying “how did you do that?”)





Is the ability of being able to hear into the recording, the inner details, minus distortions, and all the rest important to you?

Hearing the details of a recording is very important to me. I love to hear everything down to the precise type of reverb they put on some instrument, way back in the corner of the mix.


If so why wouldn't you use the source that in the vast, vast majority of cases will come from a digital source,

Because in my system, I find the difference in hearing recorded detail between digital and my turntable, is often very subtle at best.
There isn’t some big obvious win for digital.
They’re definitely is an audible advantage for digital. But as I say, it is usually very small. My vinyl is capable of extracting, glorious levels of detail and clarity from records. So I totally get my audiophile Jones off from recorded details from vinyl as well from digital.

Yes, if it's "all about the music",

As I’ve said before, I don’t even know what you mean about it “ all being about the music.” If I was forced to talk that way, I’d say my audio gear hobby means I’m not “just about the music” and neither are you.

I get pleasure from the audio gear itself, how it works, how it looks, how I get to play with sound, and how I get to enjoy the sensuousness of beautiful sound itself along with the musical content, and which compliments and can enrich my musical listening experience on the system.
I love the gear. I love the music. There’s zero problem in doing both.



all the other "pleasures" of playing with vinyl should take a secondary place in importance.

As I mentioned, at least in my system, I don’t find a dramatic advantage for digital in terms of showing me recorded detail. I can certainly appreciate it when I’m in the mood to appreciate it. But I’m trying to take the larger perspective here.

So with vinyl, I get a very satisfying level of recorded detail, but also some characteristics that I often favour over my digital source, which I’ve mentioned many times before (a type of textual vividness, that can make the sound sometimes feel a bit more solid).

And then add into that all the other pleasures I get from buying records, owning them, owning a turntable that I find to be beautiful and a pleasure to use, and how it all tends to
allow me to more easily relax and unplug from screens the digital world, and effortlessly listen to whole albums….

All that adds up pretty heavily to why I enjoy records as part of the hobby.

Listening to my digital source still blows me away. So does up mixing stereo to surround on my surround system. The fact I can really enjoy one doesn’t mean I don’t use enjoy other ways as well.

And that’s one thing that you and you-know-who seem to often forget in your crusade to tamp down on our enthusiasm for records:
All the members in this thread who play records also have a digital front end and use it as well. It’s not like we don’t regularly experience being able to compare digital to vinyl ourselves, and it’s not like we’ve just fully abandoned digital. We can just admit how much we like both formats.
 
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Matt you are Maximus in the North African colosseum. Swinging away.

"Are we not entertained?"
Well, there is Fighting, and there is Fighting Reality.

The first appeals to 8 year old boys. This is not the place for that sort of crap.

The second applies to people with limited understanding and who have been sucked in by Kool-aid merchants, effectively becoming reality deniers aka science deniers, and who think they are educating people by endless argumentation and obfuscation. Hello Matt. This is not the place for that sort of crap either.

However this is the place for exposing science denial and promoting better understanding of reality, while not being distracted too much by the constant hazing by relentless myth-makers and twisted-logic point-scoring denialists with smoking keyboards.

We try.
 
The second applies to people with limited understanding and who have been sucked in by Kool-aid merchants, effectively becoming reality deniers aka science deniers, and who think they are educating people by endless argumentation and obfuscation. Hello Matt. This is not the place for that sort of crap either.

And yet you have never been able to actually identify anywhere that I have denied reality, denied science or made incorrect or implausible technical claims, or any such thing. And you wouldn’t be able to do it right now either. (Go ahead, I’ve made plenty of posts in the past couple days - point out where I have denied science when talking about digital or vinyl ). How many times does your bluff have to be called?

Hallucinating anti-science positions that I have never held, which you do with regularity, is not exactly dealing with “”reality” Newman.
 
All of which can be hacked and (in various ways) access denied.
I use none of those for banking (and there is no banking, tax info or anything else of financial import on my phone, laptop, tablet or desktop computer).
It's accurate until someone nefarious hacks in, whether it be a bad guy or a bad actor on behalf of their government.
There is a tremendous amount of proof that it happens.
I have more than one friend who has spent a lot of money and years trying to fix the damage that was done.
So, I just take the few extra seconds that it takes to be safer and avoid the "convenience".
This approach can be a double edged sword. I know of a case where someone who didn't use any digital banking missed, as a result, that someone else had set up online access to their accounts and eventually just emptied them. No matter what you rely on, you have to watch everything like a hawk.

Not forgetting that you may not use digital means to access your accounts, but your account is still digital, the banks treat your account information in the same way as if you do: so if your provider gets hacked you are in just as much risk as anyone else.

Using one protected device to access your information - which is online regardless of how you don't access it, with two factor authentication on a second device - may now be better than not using online access at all. It's worth considering.
 
But not totally unrelated to the information that's still there. They are harmonics synthesized from the remaining lower frequency content. Which is the sole link between a harmonics-based 'exciter' output to the discarded content. Upper harmonics of the content surely were a component of the discarded content. To that extent , upper harmonics added by the exciter are a guess at the harmonic content of the discarded audio. But a harmonic synthesizer can't know the true profile of that original upper harmonic content, nor has it any basis to 'guess' at any nonharmonic content that was there too. Hence the impossibility of accurate re-creation.

As for AI part isolation and remixing, crude versions are already available to the public, including websites one can upload a track to for such processing, though Peter Jackson;s purpose built software for the Beatles project is leagues beyond that

In psychiatric literature I believe the above is called 'flight of ideas'.
 
This approach can be a double edged sword. I know of a case where someone who didn't use any digital banking missed, as a result, that someone else had set up online access to their accounts and eventually just emptied them. No matter what you rely on, you have to watch everything like a hawk.

Not forgetting that you may not use digital means to access your accounts, but your account is still digital, the banks treat your account information in the same way as if you do: so if your provider gets hacked you are in just as much risk as anyone else.

Using one protected device to access your information - which is online regardless of how you don't access it, with two factor authentication on a second device - may now be better than not using online access at all. It's worth considering.
In theory the Credit Union (no banks) puts a hold on anything they consider abnormal (and they notify me, as they have many times).
If someone manages to empty the accounts, they won't get more than $3000 (or $5000, if they access all 3 of my Credit Unions when they are max full) because a bank is
A. not where I keep my money (I prefer that my money is working for me, therefore most of it is tied up in properties, business partnerships, etc).
B. the places that I do keep money are escrow accounts not connected either physically or electronically to any of my 3 banks.
 
In theory the Credit Union (no banks) puts a hold on anything they consider abnormal (and they notify me, as they have many times).
If someone manages to empty the accounts, they won't get more than $3000 (or $5000, if they access all 3 of my Credit Unions when they are max full) because a bank is
A. not where I keep my money (I prefer that my money is working for me, therefore most of it is tied up in properties, business partnerships, etc).
B. the places that I do keep money are escrow accounts not connected either physically or electronically to any of my 3 banks.
No banks. That stopped being an effective option for me a while ago, and the remaining credit unions in this part of the world don't seem to run in that way. You've clearly thought about this. I'd stand by what I'd say for people using more "normal" arrangements.
 
No banks. That stopped being an effective option for me a while ago, and the remaining credit unions in this part of the world don't seem to run in that way. You've clearly thought about this. I'd stand by what I'd say for people using more "normal" arrangements.
Australia is a place that I do not own anything.
But I enjoyed renting a car, an apartment (and especially the people) along the waterfront in Freemantle for the month of December, 2004.
 
I strongly disagree. How an image is presented, can influence our perception and experience. That should actually be obvious.
I think you misunderstood my reply and point which was simply the masking etc didn't effect the technical quality of the presentation. The perception and impact of the viewing experience can be very greatly effected, I'll never understand watching Star Wars on a 4" smartphone. LOL If I had the room I don't know if I'd go as far as attempting to hide all the gear, etc. When I watch a movie I get the room as close to pitch dark are possible, except for all the damn led lights on everything, :mad:

As I’ve said before, I don’t even know what you mean about it “ all being about the music.” If I was forced to talk that way, I’d say my audio gear hobby means I’m not “just about the music” and neither are you.
Well Newman already said it best why we're here and why we post what we do.
"However this is the place for exposing science denial and promoting better understanding of reality, while not being distracted too much by the constant hazing by relentless myth-makers and twisted-logic point-scoring denialists with smoking keyboards."
Hallucinating anti-science positions that I have never held, which you do with regularity, is not exactly dealing with “”reality” Newman.
He's not hallucinating, it's your constant dance around the reality with the "but, but, but sounds good to me" justifications in an attempt to override and blur the realities. You do that not only here on this particular subject but are a constant apologist for the subjective community and their approach to things like tube gear, SET and others.
All of which can be hacked and (in various ways) access denied.
I use none of those for banking (and there is no banking, tax info or anything else of financial import on my phone, laptop, tablet or desktop computer).
It's accurate until someone nefarious hacks in, whether it be a bad guy or a bad actor on behalf of their government.
There is a tremendous amount of proof that it happens.
I understand and appreciate your feelings.,
It's only in the big picture, the bank and all your other financial involvements are already in a computer and possibly accessible to the bad guys with the talent. :facepalm:
 
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I think you misunderstood my reply and point which was simply the masking etc didn't effect the technical quality of the presentation. The perception and impact of the viewing experience can be very greatly effected, I'll never understand watching Star Wars on a 4" smartphone. LOL If I had the room I don't know if I'd go as far as attempting to hide all the gear, etc. When I watch a movie I get the room as close to pitch dark are possible, except for all the damn led lights on everything, :mad:

Awesome! We definitely agree there!!!!!


He's not hallucinating, it's your constant dance around the reality with the "but, but, but sounds good to me" justifications in an attempt to override and blur the realities.

You can say those words, but like Newman what you can’t do is point to anything that justifies them.

There’s nothing remotely anti-science in pointing out that experiences, perception and preferences can be affected by any number of factors, such as the ones I have given for why records appeal to some of us.

You do that not only here on this particular subject but are a constant apologist for the subjective community and their approach to things like tube gear, SET and others.

Nothing to apologize for. You know I don’t support woo-woo - asking anyone to accept technically implausible claims - and you know very well you won’t find an instance of this in what I’ve written.

This is what I mean by you guys hallucinating and chasing phantoms.

Beyond that, as far as I can tell, you are set off even by my acknowledging it is OK if someone chooses gear that is not The Highest Fidelity. And in that regard, I really don’t care what names you fling at me on your crusade.
 
I strongly disagree. How an image is presented, can influence our perception and experience. That should actually be obvious.

It’s true that people are capable of getting into a movie even on the crap quality screens (including the old CRT’s we grew up with). But that is different from the idea that careful attention to presentation details does not affect the experience.

I’m as much a Home Theatre fanatic as I am an audiophile (almost 17,000 posts on AVSForum, goodness, help me). And I’ve been pretty fanatical in investigating how to influence perception of an image.

Even back when plasma were relatively new, I was the only person I knew who was masking for 2:35:1 AR and using large black velvet backdrops behind the plasma to increase the pop, dimensionality and immersiveness of the image. Everyone who viewed my house always came away, thinking it was the best flatscreen experience they ever had.

You may think that you are only concentrating on an image, but our perception is also influenced by what our eyes can see around the image as well. (that’s why different coloured backgrounds for this can affect her perception of colour on a screen., as only one example)
It strikes me that a lot of what you are describing in these recent posts is about concentration.

Maybe the reward you get for those things is that the subconscious part of your experience improves, leading to it telling your conscious that the sound, image, or whatever is improved by the changes you make.
 
Beyond that, as far as I can tell, you are set off even by my acknowledging it is OK if someone chooses gear that is not The Highest Fidelity. And in that regard, I really don’t care what names you fling at me on your crusade.
What do you mean by "set off" ?
As I said many times, I don't give rodents butt what anyone chooses to listen to.
But what ASR was set up to do was use modern science to separate the good, bad, and fugly.
I see no problem with a few of us reminding our readers that a vinyl source and tube electronics is about as far away from
a SOTA audio system as you can get in 2024. You have no problem with constantly applauding the "vinyl revival" and telling everyone how much you love your system. If you didn't love it, you wouldn't have spent such a huge amount on it..
There’s nothing remotely anti-science in pointing out that experiences, perception and preferences can be affected by any number of factors, such as the ones I have given for why records appeal to some of us.
Not anti-science but maybe anti-High Fidelity?
Call it what you will but you do no one any favors by applauding this "sounds good to me" approach.
That's never taken the advancement of the reproduction of High Fidelity music a single step in the right direction.
Just to opposite, it's sadly sent the gullible down a path filled with high distortion, noise, and wasted money.
"How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information? "Peter Aczel"
 
Cant recall the last time the Matrix killed or attacked my TT ..!

Its why its best to have one for backup :)
I think I've said this before, but many vinylphiles seem to fantasize of a global meltdown (economic, nuclear, you name it) from which vinyl listening will rise victorious.
 
I think I've said this before, but many vinylphiles seem to fantasize of a global meltdown (economic, nuclear, you name it) from which vinyl listening will rise victorious.

That would only work if they have the old style hand-crank record players with the horn speaker for the output. Or better yet, the old Edison cylinders.
 
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