Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[antcollinet]

Rarely has my “ignore button finger” felt this twitchy.

Mine twitched.

 

[MAB]

Newman and Matt, you are back at it again.
Both of you miss the point of vinyl, why it appeals to some despite it's fundamental flaws, why others have no interest despite the fact that it contains music one might wish to listen to.
Matt, the magic is in your head. Newman, your reason doesn't apply to what is in other's heads.
Both of you are like broken records.
And once again, this comes to mind:

Please stop, or perhaps continue your arguments over PM.

 

[Jimbob54]

One post at least crossed the line in the last couple of pages and action taken. You might not agree but you will kindly be civil.

 

[HammersRocco]

8,000 posts and counting...

Has anyone been able to 'splain the vinyl renaissance yet?

Yes! It's a personal preference.

 

[HammersRocco]

Matt, the magic is in your head. Newman, your reason doesn't apply to what is in other's heads.

It does bother me a bit how you believe Matt argued for magic. Please respect other ASR members. We don't believe in magic. It's just a preference.

You are right bout Newman, though... it also applies to Sal! They believe rationality means liking (and hating) the same things as them.
( I say it with love)

 

[MattHooper]

Both of you miss the point of vinyl, why it appeals to some despite it's fundamental flaws,

How exactly have I missed the point of vinyl?

I’ve been explaining why I enjoy it, and many others, despite its flaws.

Have you perhaps not really been paying attention to the thread?

why others have no interest despite the fact that it contains music one might wish to listen to.

Literally from my first post onward in this thread, I have acknowledged why people reasonably choose not to listen to vinyl.

It seems to me, you’ve jumped into the thread with an uninformed opinion, at least in regard to what I have written.

Matt, the magic is in your head.

What does that even mean?

Have I ascribed “Magic” to vinyl at some point?

Would you like to point out anything that I have said about vinyl that is unreasonable or inaccurate?

 

[DSJR]

I'm waiting on a CD renaissance here

I've been trawling through some of my pickup cartridges (half to fully decent MM types from the 70s and 80s) and finding almost all of them lack sparkle (yes, I'm using my 'aids too)- you know, the aspect analogue people hated about digital and CD back in the day I don't have a grand or two to spend on lavish MC types, nor now the turntable and arm 'system' to use these to full advantage, but maybe an AT VM540 might work - 2m Blue too fussy and 2M Bronze maybe too expensive, although I love it? Best so far is my original V15 III, which surprised me no end, as back in the 80's, this sample sounded thin and weedy (how our sound rigs have evolved over time )

Got to say again that handling a vinyl LP and reading more easily the sleeve notes, is still a joyous thing for me, but getting the sonics from vinyl more right in a digital age is going to cost me.

 

[MattHooper]

Anyways, I have to disagree with you strongly, vinyl is most certainly "High Fidelity", nebulous term that it is. It may seem a primitive process next to digital, but that doesn't mean it sucks. Human hearing being so poor, it doesn't take much to fool us and maintain an illusion that there's instruments playing right in front of us, and that might include someone who seems to be singing over it all. In my book, to be "High Fidelity" is to convey these things, that a piano sounds like a piano, a guitar sounds like a guitar, vocals sound human, etc. Lo-fi is your cell phone speaker, or laptop speakers, those things are incapable of fooling me, though they can still convey the emotion of music.

This subject has come up before, and I generally agree with how you view this.

Obviously, digital is capable of High Fidelity.
And it is the Highest Fidelity medium, we have.

But would that mean any other source, such as vinyl, is “low fidelity!” For me, I think: “ not so fast!”

As you imply, rating the significance of one level of Fidelity versus another can be mushy and subjective.

From perhaps a majority of my records, I get a similar impression of sonic realism and “ instruments and voices occurring in front of me” from vinyl as I do my digital source. (to the degree that’s possible.). I can be just as slack-jawed in an amazement from a good record as from a good digital recording.

As to Sonic Fidelity to the master: I have quite a few records that came from the same original digital Masters as the CD or streaming release. (of course whatever remastering had to be done for pressing on vinyl)

Possessing the CD tracks is similar to possessing the digital master, with which to compare the vinyl version . Whenever I’ve compared the two, I have found the Sonic differences to usually be subtle. No doubt examples could be brought forth where the differences are less subtle. But in any case, to my mind, records still seem like quite a capable medium sonically. I keep buying new music on vinyl which I compare to the digital versions on streaming for instance, and the vinyl almost always holds up extremely well in the comparisons. (with even characteristics I favour in the vinyl). And if somebody hearing the same comparison I have deemed the vinyl to be “low fidelity” I’d grant them their subjective assessment, but I would disagree. Relative to digital I would rate the records as slightly “lower fidelity” but not “low fidelity.”

 

[Sal1950]

You are right bout Newman, though... it also applies to Sal! They believe rationality means liking (and hating) the same things as them.

More exaggerations, what makes you say I HATE vinyl?
This is just a ridiculous comment, I have no reason to hate anything technical.
Because I chose not to use vinyl, or cassette, or 8 tracks, or Edison cylinders and am oft to point out
their technical weaknesses, on a site dedicated to measuring and finding the most accurate gear for home Hi Fi
music reproduction, does not cross any line into a emotional hatred.
OTOH seems there are many here who HATE me for simply saying so.
Again, just exactly like the way objective audiophiles have been treated over the years for revealing the Emperors new clothes on other subjective audio subjects

This subject has come up before, and I generally agree with how you view this.
But would that mean any other source, such as vinyl, is “low fidelity!” For me, I think: “ not so fast!”

The best has always been the enemy of the merely good.
So how about cassette, or 8 tracks, or Edison cylinders, are they too worthy of consideration as a High Fidelity medium, in this day of our Lord 2024?

I'm waiting on a CD renaissance here

It's already started

 

[MAB]

It does bother me a bit how you believe Matt argued for magic. Please respect other ASR members. We don't believe in magic. It's just a preference.

You are right bout Newman, though... it also applies to Sal! They believe rationality means liking (and hating) the same things as them.
( I say it with love)

It's argument for the sake of argument. I have an extensive vinyl collection dating back to the '70s (earlier if I include my parent's albums) including material unavailable digitally, plus classic turntables, tonearms, and cartridges which I listen to often, and make measurements since I am interested in the technology as well as the music. I struggle with vinyl-evangelism and vinyl-denial equally. I don't believe vinyl has magical properties that transport us to the venue, or the venue to us. Nor do I think that vinyl's flaws disqualify it from enjoyment.

Matt and Newman have a long history of verbosely debating, summarized by the classic Star Trek episode.

 

[MattHooper]

So how about cassette, or 8 tracks, or Edison cylinders, are they too worthy of consideration as a High Fidelity medium, in this day of our Lord 2024?

Rank them however you wish.

I don’t remember sounding anywhere near as good as a quality vinyl record. But I had very little experience with 8 track.

 

[MattHooper]

Matt and Newman have a long history of verbosely debating, summarized by the classic Star Trek episode.

I don’t think you have understood my views of vinyl, but the Star Trek reference is a good one

 

[Sal1950]

Ranked them, however you wish.

I don’t remember sounding anywhere near as good as a quality vinyl record. But I had very little experience with 8 track.

SOTA cassettes could actually exceed vinyl on some areas.
It doesn't suffer from inner grove distortion, an audible failing vinyl will never escape for one.
I've only seen one valiant attempt at it, but it comes with it's own trade-offs.
At 45rpm what do you imagine the playing time is for these LP's ? LOL

 

[Robin L]

Ranked them, however you wish.

I don’t remember sounding anywhere near as good as a quality vinyl record. But I had very little experience with 8 track.

You haven't lived. However, DAT might have sounded better but was even more frustrating in the long run.
My Uncle Charlie, who had worked at KFWB as a news reporter, had the grandaddy of 8 track, the endless loop Muzak cartridge. About twice the size of an 8 track in length, width and depth, it ran at some absurdly slow speed and offered up something like 12 continuous hours of "Muzak".

 

[Ropeburn]

I'm listening to Heilung's new live album on Amazon Music HD. I know it isn't logical, but I just ordered the double LP version instead of the CD.

This kind of music is highly dynamic and especially powerful in the bass range (which I love), which makes ordering a vinyl copy with its inherently limited dynamics and especially stereo bass kind of moot.

In a technical sense. Which is not exactly the ultimate measurement for enjoyability.

Even regarding those technical limitations of the format, I have not one single doubt It'll be highly enjoyable even on the technically inferior format that is vinyl.

Good, well produced, and powerful music will remain just that, regardless of the system it's played on. The rest is personal preference. And we all know how highly subjective that is.

Go ahead and enjoy your Heilung release. It'll be a great experience, simply because that band is just that good.

 

[antcollinet]

As you imply, rating the significance of one level of Fidelity versus another can be mushy and subjective.

It is amazing. I'm currently listening to a series of lossless digital flacs streaming from radio paradise. The quality is spot on, and I'm enjoying it just as much as the 8 sides of vinyl I listened to last night.


I shouldn't need to say this, but to avoid any knee-jerk reactions - I am not saying anything about the relative quality between the two nights music - I'm talking about enjoyment.

 

[MattHooper]

However, DAT might have sounded better but was even more frustrating in the long run.

Yeah. I lived through the change from recording on Nagras - hellish. Then for POST PRODUCTION sound we moved to DAT for field recording. Certainly better and more convenient, but still a bit of a hassle.

amazingly, handheld portable recorders are still pretty clunky these days and feel behind the times.

I’ve actually found my iPhone to be a tremendously handy field recorder, for non-critical sound quality. It’s the recorder I always have on me. The limiter on this thing (via recording apps ) is amazing! I can record loud sirens going by with virtually no distortion, and they drop in beautifully to my tracks (usually is background passbys).

 

[antcollinet]

At 45rpm what do you imagine the playing time is for these LP's ? LOL

But as you know Sal - one of the joys of vinyl is handling it. A short run time is a bonus .

(I actually have 1 45rpm album. I didn't realise at the time of purchase or I might not have. I think run time per side is less than 15 minutes, more than 10)

 

[Sal1950]

I shouldn't need to say this, but to avoid any knee-jerk reactions - I am not saying anything about the relative quality between the two nights music - I'm talking about enjoyment.

The music I've enjoyed most was in the back seat of my 56 Chevy imposed over the buzzing of its 4 pin vibrator. LOL

 

[Sal1950]

But as you know Sal - one of the joys of vinyl is handling it. A short run time is a bonus .

(I actually have 1 45rpm album. I didn't realise at the time of purchase or I might not have. I think run time per side is less than 15 minutes, more than 10)

They sometimes seem to forget that LP actually stood for Long Playing. ROTF