Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[antcollinet]

What is your desire for a system, a toy to play with, or a clear window to the world of music?

false dichotomy

For all the other options, I've got a 406 page thread you can read if you like.

 

[MattHooper]

What is your desire for a system, a toy to play with, or a clear window to the world of music?

It’s both a toy to play with - in the sense I love playing with sound and sound reproduction equipment - as well as a way I enjoy listening to music.

Is that really hard to understand?

It’s quite clear that this forum is full of people who like to play with equipment in various ways.

 

[Sal1950]

Is that really hard to understand?

Nope, as long as we can agree on the fact that for the last 50 some years vinyl is a decidedly non-Hi Fi source

 

[Robin L]

Nope, as long as we can agree on the fact that for the last 50 some years vinyl is a decidedly non-Hi Fi source

More like 40 years - the first CD that appeared in the US was on September 21, 1984. That would be Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA". Denon made early digital recordings in the 1970s, but many of those were less than 16 bits. And some of those early CDs were of lower fidelity than their vinyl equivalents. Some would say that's still true today.

 

[Newman]

What is your desire for a system, a toy to play with, or a clear window to the world of music?

Sal, we make the same points!

For those to whom it is all about the music, vinyl ceased to be a rational choice 40 years ago.

For those who are all about the toys/gear, or consumed with nostalgia, or longing to be hip, vinyl can be one way to meet those needs.

 

[MattHooper]

* warning: rock incoming to glass house…*

Sal, we make the same points!

For those to whom it is all about the music, vinyl ceased to be a rational choice 40 years ago.

For those who are all about the toys/gear, or consumed with nostalgia, or longing to be hip, vinyl can be one way to meet those needs.

Newman,

Once again, you imply yourself as having made the “ rational choice” for someone who is “all about the music.”

Please remember that normal folk who love music would look at you and other audiophiles as being far more interested in the periphery of the gear than they are. That’s why we are niche.

My youngest son loves music. He dances and sings along all the time. He’s very passionate.

But he listens to his music simply through his laptop speakers (often streaming YouTube) or otherwise whatever earbuds are handy.

He has never given a moments thought to accuracy, or to the sound quality of whatever device he is using when listening to music. (and this could likely be said for a great many of for instance, Taylor Swift’s passionate fans.)

Contrast that with someone like you, who spends ungodly amounts of time thinking and writing about audio equipment, over many years, carefully selecting your audio gear, Making thousands upon thousands of posts on an audio gear forum, diving into all the technical aspects of gear.

Do you really think that normal folk would look at you and my son determine that YOU are “just all about the music!”

More likely they would think: wow that dude is obsessed with audio gear! You don’t need to put all that effort, time and expense into gear to enjoy music!!!

Some self-awareness goes a long way for us audiophiles. Claims that someone else isn’t into the music as much as you are is always going to be a bad look.

 

[Sal1950]

Please remember that normal folk who love music would look at you and other audiophiles as being far more interested in the periphery of the gear than they are. That’s why we are niche.

Normal folk don't frequent places like this. LOL
That's why we are here and why this passion is called "High Fidelity".
Not "sounds good to me".

 

[MattHooper]

Normal folk don't frequent places like this. LOL

Exactly. This place is a glass house for anyone claiming to be more “ about the music” than anyone else.

That's why we are here and why this passion is called "High Fidelity".
Not "sounds good to me".

I don’t find much good usually comes from gatekeeping.

 

[OldHvyMec]

This is one of those threads the more I read the less I like the way people think about other people's preferences or choices.
I guess that's why there is Toco Bell and authentic Mexican food at my Mother-in-law's house. I consider listening to Vinyl
more engaging, a fast and a slow side, time to enjoy the process of using vinyl, plus more like me, than not.

I guess I'll finish tuning the old Victrola, put a coat of "Trewax" (Carnauba Wax) on, and call it good. Time for some 78s
and getting ready for the Christmas season coming up. It's a way of life in this house like it was at my Father-in-law's
for over 50 years and mine for 41 years. I just carried on, with his passing.

It's about tradition, past practice, and staying in touch with a VERY good man, whom I loved dearly. Is the quality there? NOPE!
Is it better than other record players now? NOPE! Was it state of the art at the time? YUP! Does it make me feel better? YUP!
I listen to HIS records of Benny Goodman, Count Bassey, Satchmo, Gene Krupa, Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington, Billie Holiday,
Hank Williams, Tommy Dorsey, Lale Andersen, Bill Monroe, Stompy Jones, and Bob Burke. There are over 250 78s in PERFECT
condition.

I can still see him and my Mother-in-law dancing and them splitting up, she would grab me and he would grab his
daughter (my wife of 48 years) and foxtrot until we changed records and wound it up again (that was the kid's job
at the time.) We ate homemade tamales (pork and sweet), rice, beans, Chile (HOT homemade hot sauce) rice pudding,
Capirotada and Mexican hot Chocolate. There was usually a good amount of Grandfather's Punch and wine consumed too.

He and I differed on our gear, but we agreed on the music. We both loved to listen to music and DANCE. He was a
Marantz 7c, #7 power amps, Garrard 301, and Jensen Imperials. I was a Mcintosh, C20, MC240, Thoren TD124 and Klipsch
Horns.

The one thing that made my wife and I buy our first house was the Klipsch Speakers. We had to use Bose 901, series 1.
The Klipsch horns wouldn't fit in anything we rented and the neighbors would set your car on fire if we used them anyway.

Is it a renaissance, no it's not, it never stopped, to begin with. We have always listened to records, Reel to Reel, Cassettes, The
Music Chanel, CDs, Memory Sticks and now Streaming. Every Friday night we STILL play records and fire up the RtR occasionally.
Quite the treat! I have a top-notch Creedence tape at 15ips. The old Studder is due for a tune-up too, I just did the B2B. Keeps
my hands in shape, kinda!

Regards

 

[MattHooper]

This is one of those threads the more I read the less I like the way people think about other people's preferences or choices.

It’s human nature to want to judge others unfortunately.

For some people, judging the choices of others as being wrong or somehow irrational or based on some weakness of character helps them judge their own choices as being right, and helps maintain confidence in their own character.

Others recognize that people can make all sorts of equally legitimate choices for their own reasons.

(see what I did there? )

 

[Brian Hall]

I'm listening to Heilung's new live album on Amazon Music HD. I know it isn't logical, but I just ordered the double LP version instead of the CD.

 

[MattHooper]

I'm listening to Heilung's new live album on Amazon Music HD. I know it isn't logical, but I just ordered the double LP version instead of the CD.

May I ask why you decided to order the double LP version?

Perhaps it isn’t illogical and you had perfectly good reasons to do so?

(There seems to be a common impetus on this form to paint the choice of playing records as “ illogical” - something that one must admit only sheepishly- and I do tend to think that is misplaced)

 

[Brian Hall]

May I ask why you decided to order the double LP version?

Perhaps it isn’t illogical and you had perfectly good reasons to do so?

(There seems to be a common impetus on this form to paint the choice of playing records as “ illogical” - something that one must admit only sheepishly- and I do tend to think that is misplaced)

It just struck me as an album that will actually sound good on my turntable and is an album I will listen to from start to finish as I am doing with the streaming version now.

Also since adding the Waxwing almost all of the audible drawbacks of listening to records have disappeared. The main remaining drawback is the need to turn the record over after ~20 minutes.

 

[Count Dacula]

Does the vinyl renaissance make sense to you because it sure doesn't to me

People are forgetting what might be the most obvious answer. Nightclub DJ culture alone can draw a line through every aspect of the vinyl "renaissance" including vinyl record sales. From a certain perspective, nerdy handbag fights over stylus profiles and cold chiseled platter resonances did NOT carry the vinyl renaissance into the 2000s. It was more likely the deep impression (pun intended) made by club DJs and their milk crates of 12" records on a much much more current culture. I mean, why do Hipsters want turntables and repressed vinyl anyway.... are they trying to get back to the old school sound of a John Denver album, or show off pretend DJ whatever...?

Imma put some thought and time in if I want to go further with this idea, but it seems like it's sound logic. Also bearing in mind that everyone's experience is different, I have a bunch of different internationally ranked DJs right in my phone contacts. We might have overlooked a certain aspect of this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DJs/comments/15vhhu9/old_dj_trading_cards

 

[drewdawg999]

Normal folk don't frequent places like this. LOL
That's why we are here and why this passion is called "High Fidelity".
Not "sounds good to me".

"Outside the society, that's where I wanna be." F society. Anyways, I have to disagree with you strongly, vinyl is most certainly "High Fidelity", nebulous term that it is. It may seem a primitive process next to digital, but that doesn't mean it sucks. Human hearing being so poor, it doesn't take much to fool us and maintain an illusion that there's instruments playing right in front of us, and that might include someone who seems to be singing over it all. In my book, to be "High Fidelity" is to convey these things, that a piano sounds like a piano, a guitar sounds like a guitar, vocals sound human, etc. Lo-fi is your cell phone speaker, or laptop speakers, those things are incapable of fooling me, though they can still convey the emotion of music. Numbers wise, the dynamic range of most popular music doesn't exceed 16dB (i.e. Rickie Lee Jones' debut album), the SNR of vinyl is about 60dB, sometimes a bit more. Classical music might be in the 30s for some recordings, still easily covered by vinyl. Digital is just overkill in this regard, 96dB of dynamic range never being utilized. And the large majority of the greatest recordings ever produced are on magnetic tape... which is also garbage next to digital. Yet digitizing master tapes sounds pretty good.

Listening to music is a subjective experience, we all have different levels of listening skill and ability to process information. There is relative pitch and the ability to call out chord changes, and analyzing on the fly to determine whether or not something is good. Do you need to understand music theory to enjoy music? No, but it helps with appreciation. We're lucky to be able to scratch our butts and nitpick the quality of music reproduction. Vinyl does not sound like a bag of farts, no it sounds like music, glorious glorious music. Old Sal must have had some pretty crappy records in his collection to complain so much about surface noise and distortions. Also sounds like his table was not properly set up.

As Duke Ellington liked to say, "If it sounds good, it is good." And my analogue system sounds AWESOME. Here's an example of vinyl torture test music, over a cell phone mic:

Sounds pretty good to me, sounds like a piano. But what really comes through is the performance, the virtuosity of the pianist, Malcuzynski. That's not hindered at all here by the format. I don't sense any warbling, and this is with a new belt where the W&F numbers are not good, like 0.2%.

 

[Count Dacula]

I knew what a dub plate was from DJs, not from the old lathe sitting in the back room at Sigma Sound

 

[drewdawg999]

Sal, we make the same points!

For those to whom it is all about the music, vinyl ceased to be a rational choice 40 years ago.

For those who are all about the toys/gear, or consumed with nostalgia, or longing to be hip, vinyl can be one way to meet those needs.

I'm certainly ALL about the music, yet there is no choice to be made. It's not Sophie's Choice here. I'll gladly take both. And what's wrong with loving toys? I miss my Transformers and a time before awful Michael Bay movies... Once upon a time, music was important. If the Stones were on tour, it was front page news. Bob Dylan showing up at the Newport Folk Festival with an electric blues band was like the end of the world for some folkies. George Szell collaborated with Leon Fleisher, Grieg on one side, Schumann on the other. Once upon a time they gave artists a chance to develop, and they were allowed to experiment and push the boundaries. Those days are long gone now... but I can get a taste of it with my magical time machine, I mean turntable.

 

[Newman]

I think you are confusing the whole idea of being all about the music. Your posts 8135 and 8137 are consumed with nostalgia. You give the impression that you don't give a toss about music except when it triggers memories. What is your attitude to new music? Doesn't even get a mention.

PS If T Swift is on tour today, it is front page news, just like your reminiscences of the Stones. Same same.

PPS sorry team, I was mixing the authors of post 8135 with post 8129. My general point stands, separate from who it was directed to, about psychological anchors (triggered by music, but actually just a re-immersion in something that formerly happened while music was present) not being the same as a fascination (emotional and other) with music in itself, even when it doesn't trigger one into non-musical reminiscences that happen to have music present.

 

[antcollinet]

This is one of those threads the more I read the less I like the way people think about other people's preferences or choices.
I guess that's why there is Toco Bell and authentic Mexican food at my Mother-in-law's house. I consider listening to Vinyl
more engaging, a fast and a slow side, time to enjoy the process of using vinyl, plus more like me, than not.

I guess I'll finish tuning the old Victrola, put a coat of "Trewax" (Carnauba Wax) on, and call it good. Time for some 78s
and getting ready for the Christmas season coming up. It's a way of life in this house like it was at my Father-in-law's
for over 50 years and mine for 41 years. I just carried on, with his passing.

It's about tradition, past practice, and staying in touch with a VERY good man, whom I loved dearly. Is the quality there? NOPE!
Is it better than other record players now? NOPE! Was it state of the art at the time? YUP! Does it make me feel better? YUP!
I listen to HIS records of Benny Goodman, Count Bassey, Satchmo, Gene Krupa, Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington, Billie Holiday,
Hank Williams, Tommy Dorsey, Lale Andersen, Bill Monroe, Stompy Jones, and Bob Burke. There are over 250 78s in PERFECT
condition.

I can still see him and my Mother-in-law dancing and them splitting up, she would grab me and he would grab his
daughter (my wife of 48 years) and foxtrot until we changed records and wound it up again (that was the kid's job
at the time.) We ate homemade tamales (pork and sweet), rice, beans, Chile (HOT homemade hot sauce) rice pudding,
Capirotada and Mexican hot Chocolate. There was usually a good amount of Grandfather's Punch and wine consumed too.

He and I differed on our gear, but we agreed on the music. We both loved to listen to music and DANCE. He was a
Marantz 7c, #7 power amps, Garrard 301, and Jensen Imperials. I was a Mcintosh, C20, MC240, Thoren TD124 and Klipsch
Horns.

The one thing that made my wife and I buy our first house was the Klipsch Speakers. We had to use Bose 901, series 1.
The Klipsch horns wouldn't fit in anything we rented and the neighbors would set your car on fire if we used them anyway.

Is it a renaissance, no it's not, it never stopped, to begin with. We have always listened to records, Reel to Reel, Cassettes, The
Music Chanel, CDs, Memory Sticks and now Streaming. Every Friday night we STILL play records and fire up the RtR occasionally.
Quite the treat! I have a top-notch Creedence tape at 15ips. The old Studder is due for a tune-up too, I just did the B2B. Keeps
my hands in shape, kinda!

Regards

Post of the day.

 

[antcollinet]

Also since adding the Waxwing almost all of the audible drawbacks of listening to records have disappeared.

Exactly how I feel about it. I've never had a half way decent pre-amp before. May be all of them in a similar class are as good... but I'd be surprised.

It is transformational.