Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Blumlein 88]

So now MP3 is part of the conversation? You can double dip. MP3 rips of vinyl. Seems appropriate. I believe I wrote earlier in the thread I considered LP the MP3 of its day. It was pointed out cassette eventually supplanted LP for time.

 

[Count Dacula]

So now MP3 is part of the conversation? You can double dip. MP3 rips of vinyl. Seems appropriate. I believe I wrote earlier in the thread I considered LP the MP3 of its day. It was pointed out cassette eventually supplanted LP for time.

I was thinking about how mechanical engineering deals with multiple tolerances coming into play with multiple associated parts. It's called tolerance stacking, where freeplay and other ills of imprecision become additive on both of the parts. It seems like recording multiple generations, or even worse different formats, quickly produces a similarly unusable result.

lol, when we were kids; record FM radio, records LPs, HIGH SPEED CASSETTE DUBS....when it came time to "burn" a good chrome cassette, a CD was very much a welcome relief. It reveals how we are really dealing with the edge of acceptable quality, just with a slight format or generational change. hell even a ferrite cassette verses a chrome one was enough to kill the fun.

 

[Holmz]

I don't listen to music recorded in a way that bothers me physically (by having a physical negative effect) (and I don't give a damn about the measurements it causes me to have nausea.
I would hope that you wouldn't subject yourself to things that physically bother you either. But then again...may be you just outed yourself that you enjoy things that hurt you. Damn wack job.
So, if you told me that mold bothers your breathing but I said it's just fine, it doesn't bother me, there's nothing wrong with it:
Then I should be like you and say, no, no, it's fine if it's just a different variation of it.
Right!
Definitely a wack job you are.

Which speakers? / set up?
Some of that may not be well reflected in say frequency response or a spinorama.

Usually it is just fatigue that limits time… or headaches…

 

[Blumlein 88]

I was thinking about how mechanical engineering deals with multiple tolerances coming into play with multiple associated parts. It's called tolerance stacking, where freeplay and other ills of imprecision become additive on both of the parts. It seems like recording multiple generations, or even worse different formats, quickly produces a similarly unusable result.

lol, when we were kids; record FM radio, records LPs, HIGH SPEED CASSETTE DUBS....when it came time to "burn" a good chrome cassette, a CD was very much a welcome relief. It reveals how we are really dealing with the edge of acceptable quality, just with a slight format or generational change. hell even a ferrite cassette verses a chrome one was enough to kill the fun.

Come on man, serious people copied CDs to Metal tape.

I guess many people have not done dubbing to tape. A couple generations really made a dog's lunch of it all. That was why I was impressed with the 8th generation digital loopbacks I've posted here many times. There was a time when such fidelity was unimaginable. Now you can do it with pretty cheap gear.

 

[Count Dacula]

Come on man, serious people copied CDs to Metal tape.

I guess many people have not done dubbing to tape. A couple generations really made a dog's lunch of it all. That was why I was impressed with the 8th generation digital loopbacks I've posted here many times. There was a time when such fidelity was unimaginable. Now you can do it with pretty cheap gear.

Metal tape was just for rich kids.

 

[Count Dacula]

Come on man, serious people copied CDs to Metal tape.

I guess many people have not done dubbing to tape. A couple generations really made a dog's lunch of it all. That was why I was impressed with the 8th generation digital loopbacks I've posted here many times. There was a time when such fidelity was unimaginable. Now you can do it with pretty cheap gear.

Remember Grateful Dead dubbed cassettes from bootleg recordings? It wasn't my cup of tea.

 

[Galliardist]

I don't listen to music recorded in a way that bothers me physically (by having a physical negative effect) (and I don't give a damn about the measurements it causes me to have nausea.
I would hope that you wouldn't subject yourself to things that physically bother you either. But then again...may be you just outed yourself that you enjoy things that hurt you. Damn wack job.
So, if you told me that mold bothers your breathing but I said it's just fine, it doesn't bother me, there's nothing wrong with it:
Then I should be like you and say, no, no, it's fine if it's just a different variation of it.
Right!
Definitely a wack job you are.

So do you get random nausea when hearing music in public, on the radio, in tbe office, when visiting friends, while watching TV?

If not…My guess is that you’ve listened to MP3 a lot without and without a negative physical reaction.

However, avoiding it sounds like a good idea if it gets to you that way.

 

[Leporello]

If lowbit MP3 is so great, after 30 years, why do a hundred different formats still exist?

Looks like there are at least two of you who have never done a properly controlled blind test mp3 vs the original. Yet you seem to have very strong opinions about it. Classic golden ear stuff.

 

[EJ3]

Which speakers? / set up?
Some of that may not be well reflected in say frequency response or a spinorama.

Usually it is just fatigue that limits time… or headaches…

It doesn't matter. If the background noise is low (like at my home would be low enough & my home is not particularly quiet.
Any speakers, especially any headphones.
Laptop internal speakers. It doesn't matter.
The only thing that alleviates it is background noise. At some point, if there is enough background noise (riding in a car, in a restaurant, airport, being on a ship, etc.), it's not an issue.
Just as in a well ventilated area with clean air, mold would not be an issue.
Why do you people not accept that some people are affected by different things, sounds (lack of sounds), etc.
THAT IS ALSO SCIENCE.
As it apparently doesn't seem to happen to many people, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
We are not identical robots, or all sensitivities would be =
You want to study me, then pay me for my waste of time.
Otherwise save your money and bother someone else about their issues.

I have solved my issue relating to MP3's. I simply don't listen to MP3's at home.

Maybe you should get a psychologist and solve your busybody problem.

 

[rank]

We all have to try not to speak without knowing.
I have attended many hifi clubs in the past. Its members were all very humble in terms of sound. Because all listening was done blindly with levels finely adjusted according to the technology then available. So when I visited them, the sound of the amps, CD players or turntables quickly turned into a joke!
They all ended up in DIY. Mainly because they had adopted high and very high efficiency drivers (more than 96 dB/W/m) and you couldn't find them as finished products. Those who hadn't built anything had modified Klipschorns or Altecs.
The most qualified repaired each other's devices, very good atmosphere despite different music for each.
You don't find that on anonymous forums anymore.

 

[Leporello]

Why do you people not accept that some people are affected by different things, sounds (lack of sounds), etc.
THAT IS ALSO SCIENCE.
As it apparently doesn't seem to happen to many people, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
We are not identical robots, or all sensitivities would be =

I do not think anyone would disagree.

You want to study me, then pay me for my waste of time.

So far your claims do not warrant further study. They can be safely ignored.

 

[Robin L]

Come on man, serious people copied CDs to Metal tape.

Serious people copied LPs to reel to reel tape. Did that for numerous "Music from the Hearts of Space" programs. However, after that, transferred the analog tape to the cumbersome format of digital Betamax via a Sony 501. Later, I did transfer some CDs to Metal tape. But my favorite copying is CD to a lossless format on Micro SD. Very elegant.

 

[deweydm]

So now MP3 is part of the conversation? You can double dip. MP3 rips of vinyl. <snip>

Heh, back in the early days of digital playback I had some favorite albums I couldn’t find on CD, so resorted to ripping the LPs to mp3.

One was The Mekons Rock ‘N’ Roll. Not exactly an audiophile recording, but for the hell of it, I did an informal comparison, switching between playback via LP and Apple Music’s version, not my old mp3 rip. Streaming plays a little louder, but if I had someone else handling the switching back and forth, I doubt I could tell them apart. Not a remastered version on AM, so that’s nice.

 

[EJ3]

Serious people copied LPs to reel to reel tape. Did that for numerous "Music from the Hearts of Space" programs. However, after that, transferred the analog tape to the cumbersome format of digital Betamax via a Sony 501. Later, I did transfer some CDs to Metal tape. But my favorite copying is CD to a lossless format on Micro SD. Very elegant.

I still have a new unopened reel to reel of the conversations between Houston, the space capsule and the lunar lander.
I hope to one day (next year, with any luck) be able to copy that via a lossless format to Micro SD.

 

[EJ3]

I do not think anyone would disagree.

So far your claims do not warrant further study. They can be safely ignored.

Even though I could use some extra money, I thank you and agree fully with your assessment on this.

 

[MattHooper]

Hi Galliardist, thanks for your reply.

I'm not going to accept that vinyl is superior or a correct choice because some people listen in different ways to music.

I'm not going to accept that because you can ignore the problems in vinyl playback, everybody else can or should.

I’m afraid that is literally the opposite of what I was saying in my post, and what I have argued through this whole thread.

In that very post, you can see that I addressed some of the concerns you brought up:

“Again, nobody’s in a position to tell anybody else what to do to be fully into the music.

My choice is no better than yours, and yours no better than mine.”

And:

“(None of that means that the same amount of satisfaction can’t be gotten from digital, of course to anybody who dedicates their listening to digital! The point is we have to look at how people are actually listening and how that affects the experience).”

The thread started with someone talking about how Reddit audiophiles were posting pictures of their turntables, and puzzling at this phenomenon, as well as the vinyl Renaissance in general. Since I’m a member of the Reddit audiophile forum myself and got back heavily into vinyl, and have followed with interest the vinyl revival, i’ve been giving my perspective on that question.

My stance has never ever been that vinyl is better or that anybody else “should” be playing records. Per the question starting this thread: I’ve explained the reasons why I do it, what I get out of it, as well as referencing the views of others who have gotten into vinyl. And when I reference the views of others, for instance, pointing out certain themes seen among vinyl enthusiasts, I have provided plenty of references for this in the form of articles on the vinyl revival, threads from vinyl enthusiast sites discussing the issue, etc. so that nobody has to just take my word for what others are saying.

You point to the subjective nature of my assessment of vinyl, and I agree because that very point has been my theme all along: we can talk about technical differences between digital and vinyl, and the audible consequences or not, but when it comes to the significance of those sonic differences, that’s where things get subjective. One person may hone in on some vinyl artefact and be so bothered by it that they find it utterly discrediting of the format. Where another person may not notice it at all or notice it and not care and enjoy all the other facets that he or she enjoys.

And as I keep emphasizing: how one person reacts to vinyl is going to be entirely individual. One person’s “enriching ritual”
is another person’s useless distraction and hassle. That has obviously played out many times in this very thread.

So I hope that makes clear that a no way am I arguing that anyone else here should be enjoying vinyl instead of using a digital source, nor am I arguing that someone can’t have just as deep a connection to music listening to digital as to vinyl. How one gets into the music is entirely individual, which is why I push back on suggestions (such as Newmans) about which format one would choose “ if they were all about the music .” I switch between both sources and I have deep connections when listening to tons of my digital music library!!

Cheers.

 

[MattHooper]

The main problems with vinyl are absolutely unacceptable distortions due to the mastering, pressing and then playback system.

No problem if you’re speaking for yourself and find them unacceptable.

But there’s plenty of us who find the liabilities of vinyl to be plenty acceptable, given, we still get lots of pleasure listening to records.

It is lamentable.
So it makes the cardboard sleeve to better read the liner notes (which you will consult once in your life) rather expensive.

As it happens, I rarely find myself reading liner notes on record sleeves or record jackets. I actually used to read more liner notes in the era of the CD. In fact, I sort of view the CD era as a bonanza for liner notes.

For one thing, there was a real emphasis on sound quality, Whether it was the remastering of previously released, classic albums on CD, or new meticulous, digital recordings. a lot was made about the advances of sound quality and so you had really cool liner notes often documenting the care taken in the recording and mastering.

And the CD seem to introduce the booklet style liner notes, which could actually make for much longer and in-depth liner notes.

I am a soundtrack fanatic, and I cherished every new release of a soundtrack from the boutique soundtrack companies: the liner knows would contain all sorts of wonderful information about the history of the score as well as the history of any reconstruction of the score, the steps they took in remastering, etc. I sometimes still miss that aspect of CDs.

(apologies for all the typos, weird, formatting, extra commas, etc. in my posts as I am voice dictating them these days on my stupid iPhone)

 

[Holmz]

It doesn't matter. If the background noise is low (like at my home would be low enough & my home is not particularly quiet.
Any speakers, especially any headphones.
Laptop internal speakers. It doesn't matter.
The only thing that alleviates it is background noise. At some point, if there is enough background noise (riding in a car, in a restaurant, airport, being on a ship, etc.), it's not an issue.
Just as in a well ventilated area with clean air, mold would not be an issue.
Why do you people not accept that some people are affected by different things, sounds (lack of sounds), etc.
THAT IS ALSO SCIENCE.
As it apparently doesn't seem to happen to many people, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
We are not identical robots, or all sensitivities would be =
You want to study me, then pay me for my waste of time.
Otherwise save your money and bother someone else about their issues.

I have solved my issue relating to MP3's. I simply don't listen to MP3's at home.

Maybe you should get a psychologist and solve your busybody problem.

Thanks for your personal insult post.
The intent lof it was to help, however I cannot control the way that people interpret the words.

Have a nice day.

 

[antcollinet]

Hi Galliardist, thanks for your reply.






I’m afraid that is literally the opposite of what I was saying in my post, and what I have argued through this whole thread.

In that very post, you can see that I addressed some of the concerns you brought up:

“Again, nobody’s in a position to tell anybody else what to do to be fully into the music.

My choice is no better than yours, and yours no better than mine.”

And:

“(None of that means that the same amount of satisfaction can’t be gotten from digital, of course to anybody who dedicates their listening to digital! The point is we have to look at how people are actually listening and how that affects the experience).”

The thread started with someone talking about how Reddit audiophiles were posting pictures of their turntables, and puzzling at this phenomenon, as well as the vinyl Renaissance in general. Since I’m a member of the Reddit audiophile forum myself and got back heavily into vinyl, and have followed with interest the vinyl revival, i’ve been giving my perspective on that question.

My stance has never ever been that vinyl is better or that anybody else “should” be playing records. Per the question starting this thread: I’ve explained the reasons why I do it, what I get out of it, as well as referencing the views of others who have gotten into vinyl. And when I reference the views of others, for instance, pointing out certain themes seen among vinyl enthusiasts, I have provided plenty of references for this in the form of articles on the vinyl revival, threads from vinyl enthusiast sites discussing the issue, etc. so that nobody has to just take my word for what others are saying.

You point to the subjective nature of my assessment of vinyl, and I agree because that very point has been my theme all along: we can talk about technical differences between digital and vinyl, and the audible consequences or not, but when it comes to the significance of those sonic differences, that’s where things get subjective. One person may hone in on some vinyl artefact and be so bothered by it that they find it utterly discrediting of the format. Where another person may not notice it at all or notice it and not care and enjoy all the other facets that he or she enjoys.

And as I keep emphasizing: how one person reacts to vinyl is going to be entirely individual. One person’s “enriching ritual”
is another person’s useless distraction and hassle. That has obviously played out many times in this very thread.

So I hope that makes clear that a no way am I arguing that anyone else here should be enjoying vinyl instead of using a digital source, nor am I arguing that someone can’t have just as deep a connection to music listening to digital as to vinyl. How one gets into the music is entirely individual, which is why I push back on suggestions (such as Newmans) about which format one would choose “ if they were all about the music .” I switch between both sources and I have deep connections when listening to tons of my digital music library!!

Cheers.

Spot on - we could just end the thread there, and simply answer the OP with:

Different strokes for different folks.

I'm guessing we probably won't though.

 

[EJ3]

Thanks for your personal insult post.
The intent lof it was to help, however I cannot control the way that people interpret the words.

Have a nice day.

I am sorry that you seemed to think that I was personally insulting but different people take things different ways.
When I was in the Western part of your country Freemantle/Perth Nov, Dec & Jan 2004, I rented a flat by the harbor (I was working on a ship there) and a (what I call "rent-a-lemon" Honda car.
1st day, I had some trouble with Y'all's (you all possessive) version of English.
There were a number of people complaining about how bad the mozi's were in the small bar area I found myself in. After hearing this complaint about 3 beers worth (don't remember the beers name but it seemed to be a local one (and quite good, too), I finally said: I have no idea of what a mozi is but I'll buy a beer for the first one to explain it to me. That got a quick result and the word "mosquito". I said Oh, we have those damn bloodsuckers, too, but we call them "skeeters" and, yep, no mater where you're from or what you call 'em, they're certainly bad tonight. I then bought a round and I don't much remember the rest but I was told that a great time was had by all.