MattHooper
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As I mentioned...
An admission like "Also, I’m not that fussed about fidelity and I’m certainly not an audiophile"...is what they are looking for. ;-)
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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?
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As I mentioned...
An admission like "Also, I’m not that fussed about fidelity and I’m certainly not an audiophile"...is what they are looking for. ;-)
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I make music. I know many musicians. None of them would describe themselves as an audiophile. Nor do they care about their listeners listening only on the most neutral system. Most of them only care that you like their song. The song can be enjoyed however you want. In your car, on crappy headphones, on your phone speaker. If you want to listen to it, they are in heaven. This isn't to say that they, or me, don't utilize the tools we have at our disposal to the best of our abilities to make it sound the best we can. I do, they do. Right now, I am in a semi treated room with speakers that are flat +-3.5db from 100 to 20k measured at the listening position. Distortion is under 1% from 100 to 20k and doesn't break 10% until 30 (my sub is kinda crappy). So yeah, I know how to get something that is going to sound very good to most people and I aim for transparency (on my budget). But do I care if my audience listens under those conditions? Not really. So I am not so fussed about fidelity. As a maker of music. As a listener, I do care somewhat. I'm certainly not going to get my panties in a wad about a little (inaudible to me) IGD, or an inaudible noise floor (during playback of the music I listen to) if the activity of listening to vinyl makes me happy (and I don't get pops and clicks, because the vinyl runs through my computer in order to take advantage of ARC so I throw a de-clicker in as well).
So the vinyl 16 year streak of increasing sales, is because I, and people like me, sometimes enjoy vinyl (again, I am really sorry about this! Can I come over to your place and apologize in person, perhaps pay you a tribute for my sins?) and though we likely don't all like it for the same reasons (I mean some are apparently not even listening to it, which strikes me as odd), there are more and more of us and/or we are buying more and more individually.
By the way just got back from a show. And I am very deaf at the moment. As person raised in Olympia, and living in Seattle from 90-97, it was a blast to see Mudhoney live again. I love music. In my experience, fidelity and audiophillia have little to do with that.
But maybe I missed some promise to only listen to music in the most fidelitous manner, while declaring my audiophillia to the world when I donated money to the site. I am absolutely interested in the science of audio as well as reviews of equipment based on that and have learned a ton from being here, but if it means I have to comply with Newman's and Sal's agenda, fuck it, they go back on my ignore list and I'll keep donating money.
So the vinyl 16 year streak of increasing sales, is because I, and people like me, sometimes enjoy vinyl (again, I am really sorry about this! Can I come over to your place and apologize in person, perhaps pay you a tribute for my sins?) and though we likely don't all like it for the same reasons (I mean some are apparently not even listening to it, which strikes me as odd), there are more and more of us and/or we are buying more and more individually.
By the way just got back from a show. And I am very deaf at the moment. As person raised in Olympia, and living in Seattle from 90-97, it was a blast to see Mudhoney live again. I love music. In my experience, fidelity and audiophillia have little to do with that.
But maybe I missed some promise to only listen to music in the most fidelitous manner, while declaring my audiophillia to the world when I donated money to the site. I am absolutely interested in the science of audio as well as reviews of equipment based on that and have learned a ton from being here, but if it means I have to comply with Newman's and Sal's agenda, fuck it, they go back on my ignore list and I'll keep donating money.
Yes, On a serious science based High Fidelity website, that's the only truly honest reason to continue farting
around with such an inferior, obsolete medium. All the rest is just smoke blowing for justification.
We're here to investigate the SOTA in music reproduction.
Mikey Fremer has a place for all the rest.
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You can tell us why you are here, but you can’t tell why anyone else is here, until they tell you (one way or another).
For example, I’m not here to post over-exposed cartoons that were maybe funny the first time, but really not ad nauseam. Otoh you appear to be. What does that have to do with SoTA anything?
So really, even the self-declared hardcore are here for a variety of things.
thecheapseats
Addicted to Fun and Learning
good points all, that personally spoke to me...
I've been gifted many vinyl LPs over the last few decades - but I haven't purchased a vinyl recording in over thirty years (that's a guess)... however I simply must hear certain seminal performances many times every year from an absurdly large vinyl collection - started a lifetime ago because they bring me joy, effing amaze me - and remind me why I chose what I do for a living...
I don't give a shit if some of those performances snap crackle or pop from wear - were poorly recorded - are mono recordings - or have any number of other flaws... I just don't care and it's unimportant to me... fidelity doesn't have a damn thing to do with it...
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HammersRocco
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All things being equal, in these modern times, once you get to the level of $200 DAC and headphone amps, you get SOTA performance
THAT IS WHAT IS GREAT ABOUT DIGITAL! And why I also use it - many times I have dared the Audiophile Style (formerly Computer Audiophile) peeps to prove that they can hear the difference between a $10K Denafrips, and a $200 Topping - they just get upset.I love digital too - it is the great equalizer. It also means that SOTA is so easy to achieve there is not much to investigate... Are you sure you are not secretly an Audigon aficionado?
( I kid I kid - getting tired of this thread - no replies to replies ) Setting Sal to ignore to avoid the temptation of replying/getting into it.
Thank you for the honest testimonial.
If all the members here were like you this thread would have ended in the first page.
Enjoy and God Bless.
thecheapseats
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I suffer turntables for what they deliver, only when necessary, and nothing more...
You are aware that there is a "Turntables, Phono Amplifier, Cartridge Review" sub-forum here, and that @amirm reviews analog source equipment?
I was left 240 very nice pieces of vinyl. I just looked at my buddies collection. It was his pride and joy. He lost a lot of mobility
in 2020. He ask a few of us that were close to help downsize his "STUFF." He was 85 then. Eternity took the man last week and
his bride of 64 years contacted some of his buddies. The one thing he did was continue to get up every day fire up his old setup
and start flipping LPs. He didn't want the convenience of anything, he wanted the memories of all those years he lived and while
living, enjoyed the music. It's a testimony to pure nostalgia and the efforts of people to keep a great part of their past and friends
that were there, alive and well.
The LPs he left will be here in 200 years. Not a single memory stick, hard drive, CD player or tape will work or still have
the recorded material. I chose Vinyl for that single reason. It will outlast every single medium and have the ability to play it back
with a HAND CRANK, if need be.
All arguments are selfish to any other end, IF music is the reason and how it sounded at the time it was recorded.
Is it perfect? NO, the people that play the music weren't either. The Ramones vs Pavarotti. One could be perceived as really bad
and one really good. I certainly prefer one over the other. I've heard the term "perfectly bad" or "The perfect imperfection."
I believe Vinyl checks all the boxes for fidelity, if need be. Vinyl has surely survived the test of time more so than any other
media so far.
Lacquers or Vinyl may be inferior to some but then time is the test not individuals opinions that were made up by their lack
of perseverance to a well received and still widely used medium. Vinyl playback hasn't gotten worse since the 80s it has gotten
better and better. Whether a person is glued to the TV, Laptop, or a video game it's their time to spend. I just like to remember
as well as speculate that Vinyl will be here for a long, long time.
Vinyl wasn't perfect, it was never meant to be, BUT the recordings of Winston Churchill are still quite good considering the way
they were stored and the fact they were cut and distributed in mass as the bombs fell.
The Flintstones used a Vinyl type rig. What else do you want?
Regards
in 2020. He ask a few of us that were close to help downsize his "STUFF." He was 85 then. Eternity took the man last week and
his bride of 64 years contacted some of his buddies. The one thing he did was continue to get up every day fire up his old setup
and start flipping LPs. He didn't want the convenience of anything, he wanted the memories of all those years he lived and while
living, enjoyed the music. It's a testimony to pure nostalgia and the efforts of people to keep a great part of their past and friends
that were there, alive and well.
The LPs he left will be here in 200 years. Not a single memory stick, hard drive, CD player or tape will work or still have
the recorded material. I chose Vinyl for that single reason. It will outlast every single medium and have the ability to play it back
with a HAND CRANK, if need be.
All arguments are selfish to any other end, IF music is the reason and how it sounded at the time it was recorded.
Is it perfect? NO, the people that play the music weren't either. The Ramones vs Pavarotti. One could be perceived as really bad
and one really good. I certainly prefer one over the other. I've heard the term "perfectly bad" or "The perfect imperfection."
I believe Vinyl checks all the boxes for fidelity, if need be. Vinyl has surely survived the test of time more so than any other
media so far.
Lacquers or Vinyl may be inferior to some but then time is the test not individuals opinions that were made up by their lack
of perseverance to a well received and still widely used medium. Vinyl playback hasn't gotten worse since the 80s it has gotten
better and better. Whether a person is glued to the TV, Laptop, or a video game it's their time to spend. I just like to remember
as well as speculate that Vinyl will be here for a long, long time.
Vinyl wasn't perfect, it was never meant to be, BUT the recordings of Winston Churchill are still quite good considering the way
they were stored and the fact they were cut and distributed in mass as the bombs fell.
The Flintstones used a Vinyl type rig. What else do you want?
Regards
You are right about no replies to replies. I enjoy opposite opinions, but simply broadcasting them on repeat is a bit self-aggrandising and self-involved. Ignore it is then.
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Today's CD players are a huge letdown. Even a low to middle of the pack player in the late '80s through '90s allowed for easy track programming (and many had indexing, if you cared about it). They all came with a readout that showed actual user oriented information, other than the current track number and time. Now, you can say that the new ones have better specs, but chasing specs as a practical 'in your living room' matter is pretty meaningless, at least as far as your ears go. And if that's important, just use 'digits out' and hook the stream to a inexpensive but SOA DAC.
Actually, comparing today's hi-fi with what you used to get is pretty dismal for most types of gear. You just got 'more' for your dollar back when hi-fi was important. Compare Yamaha's latest and greatest $6000.00 machine with one of their mid tier machines that sold for $1500.00 in '87.
[Two points: 1) Whether anyone will be making record players (or CD players) in 200 years?. Your guess is as good as mine, or anyone's for that matter. Certainly the actual disc will last a long time, depending upon how well the plastic holds up and the care one takes. I've read that data integrity of a CD is between 100-200 years; records at least 100 years. Who knows? We won't be around to tell. 2) hand crank Victrolas probably all suffer from metal fatigue in their wind up mechanism, so you have to be careful with that.
]
Wish I'd had the time to finish this one.
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Those were very nice, for the time. More of a radio station 'pro' machine. You could get some of the features (like playback speed control) on their lesser 'consumer' oriented models. I don't follow the CD player scene much anymore, but my guess is that many of the nicer feature models from back in the day have failing laser mechs.
I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend any large amount of money for a 'new' CD player. But people say that about record players too. So there is symmetry in the audiophile world.
That's an SL-P50P. Very few ever existed, and that one was a prototype.
Looked like it had been left out in the rain for a few days before someone grabbed it. Extensive clean-up including removing all the board and wire connectors, us cleaning, and re-plating. I had to get a laser mech out of a donor machine. It had a mod board on the processor card and seemed to be executing one instruction at a time - seemingly a debug mode. At that point we'd downsized our apartment in NYC and bought our house, which we were only at on weekends, so no time to keep working on it. The owner eventually sold it as a project to someone else.
It was ran by a Z80. Quite a beast.
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