ocinn
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Real text sent to me by an acquaintance, enjoy:
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Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?
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Care to listen to the samples I posted on a regular stereo? My opinions on this matter have been made explicitly clear in recent pages so I am not arguing any position here. I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts.
Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?
Please can you explain? They are referring to the increased dynamic range on the vinyl version versus digital, due to the digital version being subjected to dynamic compression.
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I think this very much depends on the music you listen to. I will occasionally listen to an LP on headphones. When the needle drops the surface noise is terrible! As soon as the music starts playing, I can't hear it, no matter how much I try to ignore the music and listen FOR the noise. Even at only 30-40 dB below signal, I just can't hear it, my brain tunes it out instantly. I also can't hear wow and flutter (my TT is apparently running about 0.025%) maybe if I listened to piano concertos both of those flaws would be apparent. I'm not even sure what to listen for in terms of hearing IGD. Nor do I notice high end fall off on inner tracks. I know all these things exist. I have no doubt they are audible to some people under some conditions, but I would love to learn more about the when and why of it. Maybe I'm lucky enough to have normal hearing (as tested) but my brain latches on to the music rather than the flaws. I don't know. Certainly some people seem to hear the flaws and it drives them nuts.
Anyway, it might be suspension of criticality, but it isn't willing. I honestly just can't hear most of the issues. The one thing I can hear is clicks and pops, so I remove those digitally in real time. I also use digitization since room corrections seems to make a much bigger difference than the gaps between digital and vinyl.
MattHooper
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Speaking for yourself, right? ;-)
My "tests" playing vinyl for guests doesn't support your thesis. It doesn't take any "willing suspension of disbelief" - the high quality sound coming from the speakers
strikes them immediately. And often they didn't know it was a record playing - because my source room is in a different room from the speakers so they don't see what medium I'm selecting. (And sometimes I turn down the volume at first so there isn't an obvious needle drop).
Valentino
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I don't care.
No, analog - vinyl, cassettes and tape are never lossless, never have been and never will be.
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I am not sure the word lossless as it is usually used in the digital world can even be applied to analog. What would lossless (or lossy) mean for analog?
Zensō
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Analog vs digital, lossless vs lossy, smooth vs jagged. You know, those darned digital stair steps.
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afinepoint
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As it has been stated again and again there is no cult belief that vinyl is superior. Or that is superior for that fact.. Why you and others can't get that through your heads is sad. That nonsensical lie is only being spread by that "cult" that doesn't like vinyl don't get it and can't let it go. Stop making things up. Go back and reread Adam's (Moderator) comments.
Even in the days of vinyl I remember most preferring live music when available. Even then vinyl was surpassed by tape format. Hard to beat 15 in/sec.
Whine and criticize elsewhere. Maybe a digital thread? As Adam said this thread is for those that like vinyl. If you don't and just want to troll and criticize you have no business being here. Free country or not. Reread the title of this post. It's not "Is Vinyl Better Than Digital" Start your own Let's Rant about Digital thread. This is like a car conversation where those that drives trucks keep butting in saying trucks are better.
Can't we just get along? Sheesh.
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Yeah, I don't think that's how this works. I don't like vinyl, but I would like to learn and participate in the discussion. Is that all right with you?
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afinepoint
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Yeah. Sorry. As I said before it's this Hatfields vs McCoy's nonsense. Why some in the digital world are so thinned skinned is mind boggling. Some people like vinyl. What's all the shouting about? I haven't read a serious claim here or anywhere that vinyl is superior in sound reproduction. If they are then get your hearing fixed.
I can see some side of the vinyl being better argument after all those electronics are redrawing that sine wave and since it is not sampling it infinitely the record may win. But only on paper. And I have no curves to back that up. It's just a thought.
MattHooper
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Analog vs digital, lossless vs lossy, smooth vs jagged. You know, those darned digital stair steps.
View attachment 304553
I try to listen to digital, but my ears keep tripping down those steps!
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I do understand sampling theory and that there are no stair steps, but lossy refers to discarding “unneeded” information in order to reduce file size. Lossless is compression that can be reversed to be bit perfect to the original file. What would be the equivalent of a compression/decompression algorithm (lossless or lossy) in the analog realm?Analog vs digital, lossless vs lossy, smooth vs jagged. You know, those darned digital stair steps.
View attachment 304553
computer-audiophile
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Thank you very much for this great link! I will also have a look where I can buy these records
Zensō
Major Contributor
It was a joke. Sorry I don’t have an answer for you. Just trying to bring a bit of levity to a discussion that feels far too antagonistic given the subject matter…
JustJones
Major Contributor
This is an interesting article that contains data about vinyl sales and demographics:
Luminate Data Music Report: The Album Is Once Again A Vinyl LP
Luminate Data's 2022 Year-End Music Report contains a few gold nuggets that suggest that the music market is returning to verities of the past: albums on vinyl.www.forbes.com
Interesting that 50% of buyers don't have a turn table. I see the stated reasons of owning the music, helping the artist etc.. so I guess they still listen on earbuds and phone?
Zensō
Major Contributor
There have actually been many articles in both the audiophile and mainstream press touting the superiority of vinyl over digital (a quick Google search will surface plenty). Those that I’ve read are not based in science and are mostly marketing fluff pieces to take advantage of the resurgence of vinyl, which to me is annoying in the same way that cable and other snake oil claims are annoying.
afinepoint
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I'm going to go cut the grass. It doesn't argue and say it's better than the flowers. I just have to figure out how to take my turntable with me.
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Zensō
Major Contributor
Yeah, it’s hard to say. As Matt and others pointed out earlier in the thread, it’s impossible to know if in those cases the records were bought as gifts, they later bought turntables, etc., or if, in fact, they don’t spin the albums.
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MattHooper
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I indulged in some musical nostalgia in purchasing an album I used to spin a lot when I was young and in to jazz/fusion stuff: Lee Ritenour - The Captain's Journey
The LP, bought through discogs, arrived this week and I gave it a listen last night. A bit of noise at the beginning lead in, but once music started background record noise didn't seem there at all for the most part. It didn't have a lot of low end on some tracks, but was overall very vivid, spacious, palpable and alive sounding.
Afterwards out of curiosity I found the album on Tidal and listened again to lots of the tracks, streamed from my DAC. It sounded a bit smoother on digital, whereas the vinyl was a little more "crunchy on top." The digital was a bit more timbrally nuanced, with occasionally the sense of slightly deeper bass. I could totally see someone preferring the digital. But for me after a while I kept hearing things and thinking "I could have sworn this sounded better - in the sense of more "there" and alive - in my previous listening session. I put on the vinyl and went back and forth and, yup, the vinyl just sounded to me slightly more "real" and "there." The drums and percussion especially. When the fusion drummer was working riffs around his toms, on the digital the timbre of each drum was a teeny bit more distinct, but laid back in the mix. Whereas on the vinyl, the drums sounded more vivid, solid and "there," more real in that sense - they just popped out of the mix with a real sense of "happening now" presence that made the digital sound a little dull and asleep in comparison. Given that trade off, I preferred the vinyl.
These experiences, in my perception, happen often enough that they form part of the motivation for my personal "vinyl renaissance."
"Come at me bro."
The LP, bought through discogs, arrived this week and I gave it a listen last night. A bit of noise at the beginning lead in, but once music started background record noise didn't seem there at all for the most part. It didn't have a lot of low end on some tracks, but was overall very vivid, spacious, palpable and alive sounding.
Afterwards out of curiosity I found the album on Tidal and listened again to lots of the tracks, streamed from my DAC. It sounded a bit smoother on digital, whereas the vinyl was a little more "crunchy on top." The digital was a bit more timbrally nuanced, with occasionally the sense of slightly deeper bass. I could totally see someone preferring the digital. But for me after a while I kept hearing things and thinking "I could have sworn this sounded better - in the sense of more "there" and alive - in my previous listening session. I put on the vinyl and went back and forth and, yup, the vinyl just sounded to me slightly more "real" and "there." The drums and percussion especially. When the fusion drummer was working riffs around his toms, on the digital the timbre of each drum was a teeny bit more distinct, but laid back in the mix. Whereas on the vinyl, the drums sounded more vivid, solid and "there," more real in that sense - they just popped out of the mix with a real sense of "happening now" presence that made the digital sound a little dull and asleep in comparison. Given that trade off, I preferred the vinyl.
These experiences, in my perception, happen often enough that they form part of the motivation for my personal "vinyl renaissance."
"Come at me bro."
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