Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[computer-audiophile]

My contributions in this thread are actually always marked as opinion or, if applicable, experience - sorry if I may have left that unmentioned once.
But no matter now, I have to finish here for some time, because I'm busy with other things in the house.
Have a nice day!

 

[JP]

The potential for cherry picking of the vinyl section, and the lack of any need for cherry picking of the digital.

There is no such thing as 'representative' vinyl, because the variability / inconsistency is so huge. So 'one sample' of vinyl (or 10, or 100), is still no indication of what vinyl is really like.

So you can do what you just did as many times as you please, it means nothing except to speak to the potential of vinyl, which is actually a mirage that evaporates as soon as one gets involved with the reality. Whereas the potential of digital is pretty much 100% realised in practice, except for mastering sometimes being directed at goals that the individual listener does not share.

cheers

It's representative of about 95% of my ~650 albums, and for good reason - I choose to buy albums that are in very good condition. They aren't Cracker Jack toys where you've no idea what you're going to get.

 

[JustJones]

Free records are the gold standard

 

[USER]

One thing I am genuinely curious about is why this fear of cherry-picking and how does it completely destroy the integrity of an example? As Sal has noted many, many times, there are about 6-7 things wrong with vinyl. Even if I cherry-pick to hide the most obvious issue, clicks and pops (and my example certainly did not do so), what about the other issues? Can I magically transcend them? Is it OK to bracket really bad clicks and pops and investigate them? Or is this only about clicks and pops? And what is peak potential? A phono preamp with 70dB SINAD? 0.025% WRMS W&F? A popular older cartridge? Is that that hard for others who actually care about those things to reproduce?

I do think that it is relatively uncommon to hear examples from people that follow audio science when setting up and using turntables. But you can't hold that against them and isn't it fair to say that they are being more truthful to the medium and its potential?

 

[Newman]

I get tired of constant requests to ignore all the issues with vinyl and to ignore how frequently these issues occur, then ask us why we are still unhappy to call vinyl a top-tier reproduction medium.

 

[JP]

I get tired of constant requests to ignore all the issues with vinyl and don’t count all the times these issues occur, then ask us why we are still unhappy to call vinyl a top-tier reproduction medium.

Not ignore, but to put them in context and accurately represent audible impact. What regular poster here called vinyl a top-tier reproduction medium?

 

[Bob from Florida]

One thing I am genuinely curious about is why this fear of cherry-picking and how does it completely destroy the integrity of an example? As Sal has noted many, many times, there are about 6-7 things wrong with vinyl. Even if I cherry-pick to hide the most obvious issue, clicks and pops (and my example certainly did not do so), what about the other issues? Can I magically transcend them? Is it OK to bracket really bad clicks and pops and investigate them? Or is this only about clicks and pops? And what is peak potential? A phono preamp with 70dB SINAD? 0.025% WRMS W&F? A popular older cartridge? Is that that hard for others who actually care about those things to reproduce?

I do think that it is relatively uncommon to hear examples from people that follow audio science when setting up and using turntables. But you can't hold that against them and isn't it fair to say that they are being more truthful to the medium and its potential?

I suspect some of the complaints just boil down to "nit picking" and the inability to let anything pass that "could" be interpreted as "anti-science". There are also deliberate "troll tactics" also being employed to get "reactions" for their "kicks". Best thing for those folks is the "ignore" button.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Not ignore, but to put them in context and accurately represent audible impact. What regular poster here called vinyl a top-tire reproduction medium?

Personally, I think that is too much latitude for Newman. It should be, where did USER say that, since that is the person Newman is responding to. I also have never seen audibility of vinyl errors or psychoacoustics as it applies to audibility of errors in vinyl ever enter in to it with Newman. I kinda wish there was a thread specific ignore.

 

[MattHooper]

Not ignore, but to put them in context and accurately represent audible impact. What regular poster here called vinyl a top-tier reproduction medium?

Exactly.

Why this point never seems to get through baffles me.

 

[ronniebear]

Although this is a very lengthy 173-page discussion thread, and I have only read a small portion of the content, I am glad that analog vinyl records have re-established acceptance with the general public. At the same time, I personally have less and less interest in playing vinyl albums. Compact Disc is capable of remarkable performance (albeit often not realized with many contemporary CD releases), Super Audio CD is even better, high-res downloads and streaming capable of even more fidelity.

It comes down to personal preferences, and the underlying science of high fidelity sound reproduction. All I can say is I have 2,000 LPs and several turntables, but haven't personally played an LP in a couple of months. Over the past couple of months, I've listened to probably 150+ hours of Qobuz streaming and 50+ hours of Red Book Compact Discs. I have lent my Nitty Gritty record cleaning machine to a close friend who has become a vinyl fanatic, and haven't missed playing vinyl as much as I had thought. YMMV.

 

[Bentoronto]

Ah, I'll never forget the impression on my adolescent mind of the naked woman on the cover to Rite of Spring.... around 1958. And I'll never forget, in a literal sense, where the album was filed on my special 12.5 inch shelf bookcase (hint: filed by year/era of composition). And greatest memory of all is a Toscannini transcription of a Beethoven quartet movement that ran like a racehorse... thanks the breakneck speeding background sound of record crap. Need I also mention the fun of setting up an SME tone arm.

Yes, the smooth sound vinyl is swell, if background elevator music is your style - even without my gratuitous put-down, many good people do like smooth and mellow, like for cellos. Or perhaps after 20 years of abuse of your hearing, somehow the limitations of vinyl delight you more than the crystal clarity of percussion music (check out Paul Lanky's "Threads" for percussion ensemble) which you might not be able to hear any too well (and may have no idea that your hearing is as worn out and aged as it is).

So I've had no small exposure to various media since starting HiFi life in 1957. I couldn't be happier than today with hundreds of lossless music files on one SD chip, proceeding mostly digitally and by DSP to my near-full-range ESLs.

 

[MattHooper]

Yes, the smooth sound vinyl is swell, if background elevator music is your style - even without my gratuitous put-down, many good people do like smooth and mellow, like for cellos. Or perhaps after 20 years of abuse of your hearing, somehow the limitations of vinyl delight you more than the crystal clarity of percussion music (check out Paul Lanky's "Threads" for percussion ensemble) which you might not be able to hear any too well (and may have no idea that your hearing is as worn out and aged as it is).

Most of us who enjoy vinyl also have digital sources - mine is lossless ripped CDs and Tidal streaming to a Benchmark DAC2L. I switch between my vinyl and digital sources all the time so I'm familiar with the qualities of each. You mention hearing loss, but I'm 59, apparently much younger than you, my hearing checks out as significantly better than average for my age since I've been protecting it with earplugs in any loud scenarios since the 90's. Speaking of percussion, I was listening to Neil Peart's famous drum solo on Rush's All The World's A Stage, vinyl re-issue, and it sounded mind boggling. Hence your post gets a hearty LOL

So I've had no small exposure to various media since starting HiFi life in 1957. I couldn't be happier than today with hundreds of lossless music files on one SD chip, proceeding mostly digitally and by DSP to my near-full-range ESLs.

Which ESLs? Sounds nice!

Your mentioning of the music files reminds me: Once the whole Napster scene happened everyone I knew was downloading endless reams of music. At one point I was offered something like a couple TB drive of music that others had put together. I didn't want it. For one thing I was against the Napster scene, but just as much there was something off-putting about it. Something a bit obscene almost. I'd be owning a library of music the likes of which I'd never be able to fully explore or really know. Even as the actual space the music took up was nominal, it still felt like a waste of music.

I don't own the music I stream from Tidal and Apple of course, so it's a bit different in that respect. But it still leaves me with a bit of "careful what you ask for"...the amount of music at my fingertips. I sometimes think of that old Warner Broths Cartoon when the dog gets his comeuppance, of getting more of what he kept wanting:

"And this time we didn't forget the gravy..."

 

[Newman]

Not ignore, but to put them in context and accurately represent audible impact. What regular poster here called vinyl a top-tier reproduction medium?

What vinyl defender calls it a second-tier reproduction medium?

C'mon guys, out with it, is it top-tier or second-tier?

 

[MattHooper]

What vinyl defender calls it a second-tier reproduction medium?

C'mon guys, out with it, is it top-tier or second-tier?

How many times does someone here, who enjoys playing vinyl, have to mention "digital is the technically superior medium" before you can accept it?

Is there some catechism we must repeat? Some place of confession? Rosary beads we must clutch while saying this for it to be officially heard?

 

[mppix]

The potential for cherry picking of the vinyl section, and the lack of any need for cherry picking of the digital.

I just listened to the latest hot hundred on youtube (google music streaming) and since digital is highly consistent, as per your statement, the only logical conclusion is that digital sucks"does not sound good"!

Disclaimer: The study showed some variability that challened the hypothesis but was discarded by assumption. The final statement is reppresentative of the average performance.

 

[Zensō]

Now I finally understand why vinyl sounds better than digital :

”Richness refers to the diversity of auditory aspects heard in vinyl records. Because of record grooves, the sound of vinyl is more open, allowing a greater quantity of features to be heard. The space afforded by the grooves allows one to locate and individuate particular instruments and sounds and observe how they contribute to the music as a whole. This way, diversity can be heard.”

Spin Me Round: Why Vinyl Is Better than Digital - Aesthetics for Birds

What follows is a guest post by Tony Chackal. We have also published a response piece to this post, which you can read here. Ever wonder why people prefer vinyl records over digital formats? Are they just snobs who fetishize vintage culture or elitists overly concerned with being hip? Are vinyl...

aestheticsforbirds.com

 

[USER]

Now I finally understand why vinyl sounds better than digital:

”Richness refers to the diversity of auditory aspects heard in vinyl records. Because of record grooves, the sound of vinyl is more open, allowing a greater quantity of features to be heard. The space afforded by the grooves allows one to locate and individuate particular instruments and sounds and observe how they contribute to the music as a whole. This way, diversity can be heard.”

Spin Me Round: Why Vinyl Is Better than Digital - Aesthetics for Birds

What follows is a guest post by Tony Chackal. We have also published a response piece to this post, which you can read here. Ever wonder why people prefer vinyl records over digital formats? Are they just snobs who fetishize vintage culture or elitists overly concerned with being hip? Are vinyl...

aestheticsforbirds.com

Not sure if this is a joke. Apologies if it is! That's where we are unfortunately. May I suggest that anyone interested in "spacing" to listen to the samples I posted? The track was deliberately chosen because it plays with silence, sound stage width, and sound separation during the second half. Crosstalk (channels bleeding into each other) is much lower (that is, is worse) than in digital. Is it evident?

Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

Please can you explain? They are referring to the increased dynamic range on the vinyl version versus digital, due to the digital version being subjected to dynamic compression.

audiosciencereview.com

Tried to find the author and could only find this, lol.

 

[Zensō]

Not sure if this is a joke. Apologies if it is! That's where we are unfortunately. May I suggest that anyone interested in "spacing" to listen to the samples I posted? The track was deliberately chosen because it plays with silence, sound stage width, and sound separation during the second half. Crosstalk (channels bleeding into each other) is much lower than in digital. Is it apparent?

Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

Please can you explain? They are referring to the increased dynamic range on the vinyl version versus digital, due to the digital version being subjected to dynamic compression.

audiosciencereview.com

Unfortunately, I don’t believe the article was intended as a joke.

 

[USER]

Unfortunately, I don’t believe the article was intended as a joke.

What's nuts is that the comments are all basically AI generated responses. The post is likely feeding into whatever bots are scraping such discussion (hello!). Luckily people say that a few rounds of AI feedback (made worse as it overwhelms network content) tends to render it unusable for humans.

 

[Zensō]

Tried to find the author and could only find this, lol.

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Tony Chackal

tonychackal.wordpress.com