Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[mppix]

Some become very defensive of vinyl, as we saw even in this thread.

It can sound great, DESPITE, still having a bakers dozen of issues. Some people can easily overlook or not "hear into" the issues, some are highly bothered by the issues.
The problem comes when a person that feels subjectively they are "okay" with the minor issues, is told that there ARE issues.

The excuses start, such as:

You need to clean records
You need to align your cart and tone arm etc....
You are just a vinyl hater/troll etc.

The thing I feel, is some like some aspects of vinyl but are easily able to unconsciously not hear the small issues, and some are the opposite.
Tape hiss falls into a similar category of subjective happiness. Some love a bit of hiss, some despise hearing any.

In fact, most people opt for the most archaic/manual version of the medium that does not solve ant of the vinyl issues by choice:
- cart alignment are a non-issue on turntables with headshell and S-shape tonearms
- speed offsets and WoF are essentially a non-issue in digitally controlled (often direct drive) turntable
- phono-preamp accuracy and RIAA compensation are effectively "solved" by moving the reconstruction to the digital domain
- auto-return and automatic turntables exists

It is hard to explain vinyl renaissance with technical audio quality but LPs tend also to be mastered differently.

Perhaps LPs inherently require less compression and loudness?

 

[Sal1950]

Perhaps LPs inherently require less compression and loudness?

Ridiculous,
Do your homework

 

[MattHooper]

Which vinyl version will YOU get?

Barbie The Album

Official website for Barbie The Album, the new upcoming soundtrack from Barbie The Movie

www.barbiethealbum.com

 

[levimax]

Which vinyl version will YOU get?

Barbie The Album

Official website for Barbie The Album, the new upcoming soundtrack from Barbie The Movie

www.barbiethealbum.com

Surprised to see they are even selling Cassettes (In three different colors no less). Maybe we need a new thread to bash the Cassette revival?

 

[Newman]

Who are these people?

I continue to fail to find proponents of vinyl here who try to tell others that they should also be proponents.

He didn't say they are here.

 

[Newman]

I've just looked - didn't see anything there but the poster describing their own perception of the sound quality. Nothing in that post to declare objective superiority - or that others should experience the same.

Ahh...now I understand why you can't see them anywhere...

 

[Newman]

I said SOME vinyl listeners. Not all, not you, not anyone in particular HERE......

The people I refer to are random comments I have read on SEVERAL various forums over the years and a few in real life.
This forum is far more reserved.

Please quit taking all of what I say personally, it does not refer to YOU, nor anyone in THIS FORUM.
When you ask me "What people", I do not document and save every comment into my memory about vinyl.

Is someone not allowed to make a comment without you being offended or asking for lists of peoples names.....

I know...it's more than a little ridiculous to read the convolutions that some will go to. I once replied with a list of examples, then they tried to nit-pick each example...

 

[Newman]

...Perhaps LPs inherently require less compression and loudness?

They inherently require more, not less.

 

[MattHooper]

Surprised to see they are even selling Cassettes (In three different colors no less). Maybe we need a new thread to bash the Cassette revival?

LOL.

Maybe we can buy some pink Barbie vinyl and send them to Sal and Newman as an early Christmas gift

 

[levimax]

They inherently require more, not less.

While the dynamic range potenial of digital is higher than an LP, digitals ability to play highly compressed and loud music is also much greater than an LP's. So the poster is correct in a way i.e. it is not possible to record and play back highly compressed and loud music on an LP.

 

[mppix]

Ridiculous,
Do your homework

They inherently require more, not less.

Edit: added response - posted too fast

I still have find a completely brick-walled LP. They may exist of course .. maybe?

For context:

 

[mhardy6647]

Which vinyl version will YOU get?

Barbie The Album

Official website for Barbie The Album, the new upcoming soundtrack from Barbie The Movie

www.barbiethealbum.com

Speaking of the Vinyl Renaissance...

Dudes...
(and Dudettes, etc.)

Film.
Is.
Back.

all 70 mm of it.

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/24/1189831555/nolan-fans-are-traveling-hours-to-see-oppenheimer-in-its-intended-70mm-imax-form

 

[MattHooper]

Speaking of the Vinyl Renaissance...

Dudes...
(and Dudettes, etc.)

Film.
Is.
Back.

all 70 mm of it.

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/24/1189831555/nolan-fans-are-traveling-hours-to-see-oppenheimer-in-its-intended-70mm-imax-form

As someone who worked with film (and sound on tape) that gives me the shivers. Happy to watch film...but would never want to work with film/tape again!

 

[Newman]

While the dynamic range potenial of digital is higher than an LP, digitals ability to play highly compressed and loud music is also much greater than an LP's. So the poster is correct in a way i.e. it is not possible to record and play back highly compressed and loud music on an LP.

I still have find a completely brick-walled LP. They may exist of course .. maybe?

Guys...he specifically asked if LPs inherently require less compression. And I answered correctly.

BTW nothing stops one from putting a hugely dynamically compressed file to vinyl, simply by reducing the gain on the cutting head as much as necessary. The listener will need to crank the volume, but that's no impediment to the possibility of doing it. You occasionally see a greatest hits LP on a budget label with a running length of 60+ minutes...they would be a candidate for this sort of treatment.

 

[mppix]

Guys...he specifically asked if LPs inherently require less compression. And I answered correctly.

BTW nothing stops one from putting a hugely dynamically compressed file to vinyl, simply by reducing the gain on the cutting head as much as necessary. The listener will need to crank the volume, but that's no impediment to the possibility of doing it. You occasionally see a greatest hits LP on budget label with a running length of 60+ minutes...they would be a candidate for this sort of treatment.

It seems you are saying that to put a hugely dynamically compressed file to vinyl, you need to reduce the gain of the cutting head (reduce recording level). Not sure if I read this right and, of course, digital and analog are difficult to compare.
Perhaps the better question is if LPs really tend to get less of the crazy treatment for loudness? .. and by how much?
(edits for legibility)

 

[Newman]

Perhaps the better question is if LPs really tend to get less of the crazy treatment for loudness? .. and by how much?

If you scan any dozen or so pages of this thread, you will find answers to your question.

TLDR: in the pop-rock genre, vinyl releases in vinyl's heyday were in a loudness war. They called it a 'hot' pressing. Lots of really bad sounding music from a pure hifi angle. When CD took over, for the same genre the loudness war got even worse, because digital could handle it. When streaming took over, this initially continued, but recently the music streaming platforms are imposing fixed average levels (eg -14 dBFS), which means, for the first time, applying dynamic compression will make a song sound quieter and hence less arresting. This should make the issue a thing of the past. Fingers crossed. For other genres of music, it has never been an issue.

 

[Sal1950]

LOL.

Maybe we can buy some pink Barbie vinyl and send them to Sal and Newman as an early Christmas gift

I'm above the reply I'd like to make here, but you know -----------

While the dynamic range potenial of digital is higher than an LP, digitals ability to play highly compressed and loud music is also much greater than an LP's. So the poster is correct in a way i.e. it is not possible to record and play back highly compressed and loud music on an LP.

Humm, consumers and manufactures both have been trying to cure the LP's problems with dynamics for decades.
Just a bit too much and it BADLY distorts or the needle jumps out of the groove.
That's why we had products like the DBX Dynamic Range Expanders and Phase Linear's Autocorrelators.
I had them both trying to make LP's listenable back in the day.
Check out the top right of this picture of my system very early 1980's.
I know what I'm talking about, I've been at this since before most vinylheads were born.

You occasionally see a greatest hits LP on budget label with a running length of 60+ minutes...they would be a candidate for this sort of treatment.

Yep, that's how they do it, skinny grooves with no dynamics but longer play time.

Perhaps the better question is if LPs really tend to get less of the crazy treatment for loudness? .. and by how much?
(edits for legibility)

Irrelevant how badly some knob twisting idiot choose to mess up some recordings during the loudness wars,
thankfully on it's way out.
What matters is the media's capabilities.
The LP = A Model A Ford, designed around the same time. LMAO
The CD = 2023 C8 Z06 Corvette.
The numbers don't lie.

 

[dlaloum]

They inherently require more, not less.

Yet, my favourite masterings on LP, show less compression than their digital counterparts....

In a strange about face we end up with Digital which requires less compression, having on average more compression, out in the marketplace, and vinyl which inherently requires more compression, ending up with less compression in actual fact as used in the market.

 

[levimax]

TLDR: in the pop-rock genre, vinyl releases in vinyl's heyday were in a loudness war. They called it a 'hot' pressing. Lots of really bad sounding music from a pure hifi angle. When CD took over, for the same genre the loudness war got even worse, because digital could handle it. When streaming took over, this initially continued, but recently the music streaming platforms are imposing fixed average levels (eg -14 dBFS), which means, for the first time, applying dynamic compression will make a song sound quieter and hence less arresting. This should make the issue a thing of the past. Fingers crossed.

Your history lesson is a little off. During vinyl's hey day while some pop music, such as Motown, was loud and compressed many other artists recorded high quality and dynamic music some examples are Dire Straights, Steely Dan, Pink Floyd, Neil Young, The Eagles, Linda Rhonstadt, and many more.

When CD's took over a lot of popular music became even more dynamic and high quality both from artists from the vinyl era and new artists like Tracy Chapman and even the original albums from the Seattle grunge scene like Nirvana, The Meat puppets and Soundgarden were very well recorded and dynamic. In my opinion digital recording quality for popular music peaked in the early 1990's with some really great dynamic recordings. While not really pop I would say Lyle Lovitts first 4 albums are as good as it gets for recording quality for mainstream music.

Starting mid 1990's the loudness wars took over and recording quality and dynamic range have been in decline ever since. It may be leveling off but it shows no signs of getting better. Both Adell and Taylor Swift recordings are masterpieces of loudness ... no distortion or bad sounds but unbelievably loud with absolutly no dynamics... I don't know how they do it but even the soft part of the songs are loud. They sound fine in a car but I really don't like them on a good system in a house. For me a decent LP from the 1960's or 1970's sounds better than the latest greatest from today.

 

[mppix]

...

Irrelevant how badly some knob twisting idiot choose to mess up some recordings during the loudness wars,
thankfully on it's way out.
What matters is the media's capabilities.
The LP = A Model A Ford, designed around the same time. LMAO
The CD = 2023 C8 Z06 Corvette.
The numbers don't lie.

If numbers don't lie, the LP is about 80-90 years old, the CD is also about 40-45. Why does that matter?