Can anyone do this “test” right??

[Finalé Audio]

Hello!


I think everyone here know’s about people that can hear (often major) differences between “audiophile” switches, differences between stock and exotic speaker cables en interlinks, and let’s not forget the data cables.

I have a problem and question about that. And here’s why. Many people test stuff in their setup by listing to music first in the old situation. Let’s say at 85db. Then they turn off their equipment. They switch the component, and turn on their equipment and hit Play.
And then there’s the magical moment when they say is beter/worse than in the old situation.

Why a ‘Magical’ moment ? Well, when you listen to a fairly loud piece of music your ears habituate to the 85db, and when you switch off your equipment it’s (almost) completely quiet for one minute (minimal) and your ears habituate to that quite situation.
Then you hit play and the music hit your eardrums at 85db again. The music seems to go a lot louder because you were used to the silence. The hearing perspective has changed. How do you hear or remember the micro details of the old situation?? ‍

I tried many times but I can’t. Audio friends dito.

My question: Do I have a point?

 

[LTig]

Absolutely.

 

[LTig]

And welcome to ASR!

 

[Finalé Audio]

And welcome to ASR!

Thank you! Have seen many video’s of Amir and learned a lot!

 

[fpitas]

Hello!


I think everyone here know’s about people that can hear (often major) differences between “audiophile” switches, differences between stock and exotic speaker cables en interlinks, and let’s not forget the data cables.

I have a problem and question about that. And here’s why. Many people test stuff in their setup by listing to music first in the old situation. Let’s say at 85db. Then they turn off their equipment. They switch the component, and turn on their equipment and hit Play.
And then there’s the magical moment when they say is beter/worse than in the old situation.

Why a ‘Magical’ moment ? Well, when you listen to a fairly loud piece of music your ears habituate to the 85db, and when you switch off your equipment it’s (almost) completely quiet for one minute (minimal) and your ears habituate to that quite situation.
Then you hit play and the music hit your eardrums at 85db again. The music seems to go a lot louder because you were used to the silence. The hearing perspective has changed. How do you hear or remember the micro details of the old situation?? ‍

I tried many times but I can’t. Audio friends dito.

My question: Do I have a point?

There are a lot of things wrong with that kind of testing. You pointed out one big problem.

 

[Finalé Audio]

There are a lot of things wrong with that kind of testing. You pointed out one big problem.

Yesss, I know. I never hear/read about this problem I pointed out. But when I people (who think to hear differences) Point out that this is not really possible given the way of testing, they get angry. They absolutely can hear differences, they say. My point is completely nonsense they say.

Huh? (..I think) ‘No no… your perspective is completely changed!..I say. Nope. I’m wrong they say. This also happens when I show them pictures that fool the brain (you don’t actually see what you think you see) and I say ‘that trick does the brain with sound also. Nope. I’m still wrong.

How are people this (stupid) convinced that they have absolute hearing/memory? I don’t get that. ‍

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Yesss, I know. I never hear/read about this problem I pointed out. But when I people (who think to hear differences) Point out that this is not really possible given the way of testing, they get angry. They absolutely can hear differences, they say. My point is completely nonsense they say.

Huh? (..I think) ‘No no… your perspective is completely changed!..I say. Nope. I’m wrong they say. This also happens when I show them pictures that fool the brain (you don’t actually see what you think you see) and I say ‘that trick does the brain with sound also. Nope. I’m still wrong.

How are people this (stupid) convinced that they have absolute hearing/memory? I don’t get that. ‍

People believe all kind of things, which can not be proven objectively eg UFOs, Flat Earth you name it and they get angry when challenged about it. So this is not only observed in Audio.

They perceive the difference because they are subject to their biases. As every human is. That is why one aims to conduct controlled tests in order to eliminate any biases as much as possible. This is not only done in Audio but also in other industries where objective results matter. As for Audio see here

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Finalé Audio]

People believe all kind of things, which can not be proven objectively eg UFOs, Flat Earth you name it and they get angry when challenged about it. So this is not only observed in Audio.

They perceive the difference because they are subject to their biases. As every human is. That is why one aims to conduct controlled tests in order to eliminate any biases as much as possible. This is not only done in Audio but also in other industries where objective results matter. As for Audio see here

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Flat earthers! Autch! The most scariest of those people to me is that they are allowed to get pregnant. ALL science is wrong to them.

But on topic now I don’t get that people are not open to look at them selves. Also the (stupid) ones that think they can hear the differences between a new cable and a cable with 600hrs playtime in it. I mean… come on! Seriously?

Thanks for the interesting link!

 

[JayGilb]

Humans overestimate their audible memory. I have tested mine with various DIY rigs and am lucky to be able to accurately remember a musical passage for 2 to 3 seconds.
I can do slightly better if I concentrate on a single instrument, but having to wait for someone to switch a cable or level match the output, it takes far too long and it becomes a guessing game.

 

[Finalé Audio]

Humans overestimate their audible memory. I have tested mine with various DIY rigs and am lucky to be able to accurately remember a musical passage for 2 to 3 seconds.
I can do slightly better if I concentrate on a single instrument, but having to wait for someone to switch a cable or level match the output, it takes far too long and it becomes a guessing game.

Well, my point and own experience exactly! There’s so much to remember (exactly) when listening to a (simple) piece of music.

I’m curious if someone tested just that. How good are (trained) people in remembering details in music after 30-60 seconds of silence.
I cannot find such a test unfortunately.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Well, my point and own experience exactly! There’s so much to remember (exactly) when listening to a (simple) piece of music.

I’m curious if someone tested just that. How good are (trained) people in remembering details in music after 30-60 seconds of silence.
I cannot find such a test unfortunately.

Search the forum. As far as I remember audio memory is down to just a few seconds.

 

[Ralphies]

Hello!


I think everyone here know’s about people that can hear (often major) differences between “audiophile” switches, differences between stock and exotic speaker cables en interlinks, and let’s not forget the data cables.

I have a problem and question about that. And here’s why. Many people test stuff in their setup by listing to music first in the old situation. Let’s say at 85db. Then they turn off their equipment. They switch the component, and turn on their equipment and hit Play.
And then there’s the magical moment when they say is beter/worse than in the old situation.

Why a ‘Magical’ moment ? Well, when you listen to a fairly loud piece of music your ears habituate to the 85db, and when you switch off your equipment it’s (almost) completely quiet for one minute (minimal) and your ears habituate to that quite situation.
Then you hit play and the music hit your eardrums at 85db again. The music seems to go a lot louder because you were used to the silence. The hearing perspective has changed. How do you hear or remember the micro details of the old situation?? ‍

I tried many times but I can’t. Audio friends dito.

My question: Do I have a point?

Yes sir, you got a good point here.

Also listening to a new song at a store during a test, will trick you.
Second time you listen the same new song but with a parameter changed (a different cable for instance), you will notice in this new song a bit different details than you heard it for the first time.
You will think: Yes the unknown song now got some new details now I hear it for the second time in my life, yes this cable makes it sound different.

The problem is, when a song is new for you and you will hear it for the second time, you get acquainted and then you will concentrate on a deeper level to details in this song besides only the melody like the first time.

That’s why when you gonna test something, do it with a very familiar song.

But even then, you don’t have an auto-memory so you will “forget” what a song sounded exactly within a frequency range and with how much dB each frequency…

 

[DVDdoug]

I think everyone here know’s about people that can hear (often major) differences between “audiophile” switches, differences between stock and exotic speaker cables en interlinks, and let’s not forget the data cables.

They think they hear a difference and they claim to hear a difference. Most people here (and at HydrogenAudio) tend to be highly skeptical.

The audiophile community is dominated by nonsense to the point where the term "audiophile" often has bad connotations. ...Another thing that annoys me about the audiophile community is that they use lots of vague flowery language instead of talking about, noise, distortion, and frequency response.

With cables nobody is gong to hear a difference in a proper-scientific blind ABX test unless the cable has a defect or unless something is very-wrong or very-unusual.

Of course some people can hear "better" than others and there are trained listeners. Training is probably more important than natural hearing acuity. On the other hand, most audiophiles seem to be old dudes so you know they have some age-related hearing loss, especially in the high frequencies. (I'm a senior citizen myself I think my hearing cuts-off around 14 or 16 kHz.)

Audiophoolery

 

[Jim Shaw]

The audiophile community is dominated by nonsense to the point where the term "audiophile" often has bad connotations. ...Another thing that annoys me about the audiophile community is that they use lots of vague flowery language instead of talking about, noise, distortion, and frequency response.

Amen, brother.
Toole, et al, do a basic job of describing listening results in Toole's tome on sound reproduction. The first few chapters on measuring listeners' rating of 'good' are the most important. Audiophiles are like religious zealots: Don't expect them to be running on facts and repeatable tests.

All this irrationality is profitably fed by the audio journalists and pundits who aren't paid for telling facts and repeatable results.
They tend to run on ads and free samples.

Hearsay and editorial mutterings are profitable. But who pays for truth?
Well, not many 'audiophiles.'
Most want to be believers, not really trained listeners. They are sheep, who tell each other that they are shepherds.

Amen, brother.

 

[Finalé Audio]

Search the forum. As far as I remember audio memory is down to just a few seconds.

I have done that. Found a lot of topics, but not that. Maybe you remember this topic?

I thought so too for ‘Audio memory’. It comes down to seconds.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I have done that. Found a lot of topics, but not that. Maybe you remember this topic?

I thought so too for ‘Audio memory’. It comes down to seconds.

You need to search for auditory

I have done that. Found a lot of topics, but not that. Maybe you remember this topic?

I thought so too for ‘Audio memory’. It comes down to seconds.

Auditory Memory does the trick.

It gets this for example

Human bottleneck

Switching fast between two sources to see differences, is assuming that ALL the hearing is in the ears... Reality is that the brain will be overwhelmed and blend those two together. First, fast switching, as in A/B, does not mean that the time listening to either A or B is brief. It can be as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Finalé Audio]

You need to search for auditory

Auditory Memory does the trick.

It gets this for example

Human bottleneck

Switching fast between two sources to see differences, is assuming that ALL the hearing is in the ears... Reality is that the brain will be overwhelmed and blend those two together. First, fast switching, as in A/B, does not mean that the time listening to either A or B is brief. It can be as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thank you! I searched wrong indeed

But thanks! Very interesting information!

 

[Cote Dazur]

They absolutely can hear differences, they say

And they are right and (some of them) honest, they can hear differences, their brain tell them there are differences.
I know, I was one of them, susceptible to bias, like everybody else, earing what I wanted to hear.
They have to understand that we cannot trust the ears if we know what is at play, like I did, they will eventually realize it, but it takes time and someone to guide them in the right direction, also, they will have to do it themselves.
This video is amazing to me as a demonstration that the brain is in total control of the ears and all we have to do is close our eyes to realize what the ears are actually hearing.
This video, to me is best example of what the mind can do to tell us what to hear.

 

[dasdoing]

you know how to sit on a table. welcome

 

[Finalé Audio]

And they are right and (some of them) honest, they can hear differences, their brain tell them there are differences.
I know, I was one of them, susceptible to bias, like everybody else, earing what I wanted to hear.
They have to understand that we cannot trust the ears if we know what is at play, like I did, they will eventually realize it, but it takes time and someone to guide them in the right direction, also, they will have to do it themselves.
This video is amazing to me as a demonstration that the brain is in total control of the ears and all we have to do is close our eyes to realize what the ears are actually hearing.
This video, to me is best example of what the mind can do to tell us what to hear.

Thanks! I’ll go watch the videos