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Can amplifier speed and resolution be measured?

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tomchr

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Well, clearly! At least if the amp and the power supply are mounted in the same chassis they will move at the same speed when you throw the amp out the window. Until they hit the ground anyway. Then they'll just move through space at the same speed as the rest of the planet. :D

Tom
 

egellings

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Even 'slow' amplifiers move their output voltage around faster than any mechanical cone or dome or sheet can follow.
 

Katji

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Since we're off-topic, I know Keith and Greg passed away a few years ago; is Carl still with us?
:confused: I didn't know. These last few years, I get a sort of left-behind feeling. :confused: Major contribution, especially Keith Emerson.
 

Katji

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I suspect a lot of what is thought of as speed in a modern amp is really the ability to drive that speaker (motor).
Motion, at least as valid as using light and colour adjectives to describe sound perceptions.
 

tomchr

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andymok

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Is a 300km/h car a fast car,
a 0-100km/h in 2s a fast car, or
a car that changes instantaneously during motion a fast car?

what actually makes us feel the motion / impact / punch? what are the implications?
 

restorer-john

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With waveforms, the rate of change varies over the cycle. Consider a sine wave. Rate of change/slope is highest at the zero cross and lowest at the crest of the waveform. So a speaker driver voice coil is not accelerated in a constant manner by the amplifier. It reaches a full excursion and then is accelerated back in the opposite direction, past zero displacement and then to full incursion- hopefully not slamming into the rear pole piece in its hurry to get there. ;)

Imagine being a little dude in a roller coaster car, riding a sine-wave shaped roller coaster at a theme park. I've named the roller coaster "The Screaming Killer Hurts". Haha. Get it?
 
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Having read a lot of the kinda negative comments on the subjective descriptions on speakers and amps used by (golden ear) audiophiles, I would like to add something in the mix here. There are a lot of sites explaining what EQ does for creating the wanted effects in music mixes. Professionals use this knowledge to tighten the bass, get rid of the sharp edges, hiss, add airyness and so on. Those subjective descriptions are in fact also used by them. There's a lot of info available on frequency range effects and subjective descriptions of the sound. I am not sure if such an effect can be created by an amp. Maybe a very special headless panther kind, which does not generate a linear frequency response and therefore functions as a kindof an equalizer? If an amp would be described as the topicstarter states, it might be measurable in the frequency response it has on the used speakers. Maybe some sort of mismatch with the speakers can also cause frequency exagerration and dips, leading to altered sound perception.
 

Killingbeans

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Maybe some sort of mismatch with the speakers can also cause frequency exagerration and dips, leading to altered sound perception.

Something that's very easy to measure.

I think what folks are objecting to, is the claims about subjective impressions of speed that can't be seen in measurements.
 

MrPeabody

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This thread is representative of several threads that have been started on ASR, where the thread begins with someone asking, "Can _____ be measured?" Or, "Does _____ really matter?" Or something similar. The common theme in these threads is that the question is concerned with some nebulous audio property that is known by some word, but isn't adequately defined. If the property hasn't first been adequately well defined, then there isn't even a good reason for two or more people discussing the property to assume that they are even talking about the same thing. And there is plenty of evidence in these threads that people don't agree on exactly what the property is. The only thing on which there is strong agreement is the spelling of the word they use to refer to the nebulous thing. This is a fundamental problem with debates that take place among audiophiles using web forums. The ensuing debates are pure folly. The occasions where the debates are not pure folly, where there is a strong substantive basis for the debate, are the occasions where the debate has proceeded from a clear, universally-accepted definition of the thing being debated.

The concept of "speed" hasn't any substantive role to play in amplifiers, or in any audio equipment for that matter. The reason is that there are two discernible ways to interpret the concept, and with both, there is a better perspective. One interpretation is with the time rate of change for the signal voltage. This is probably the more obvious interpretation, but it is frivolous, because of the absolute mathematical correspondence between frequency response and the time rate of change of the signal. The question, "Is the amplifier's limitation on the time rate of change as great as it needs to be?" is entirely equivalent to the question, "Does the amplifier's frequency response extend as far into high frequency as needs to? These two questions are in reality the very same question. They are two ways of looking at the exact same thing. The other interpretation is with the phase shift that occurs within an amplifier. Since phase shift can be interpreted as time shift, it is conceivable that some people would think of an amplifier with minimal phase shift as a "fast" amplifier. I doubt if there are many people who think of amplifier "speed" this way, and the only reason I mention it is to underscore the fact that when the terms are not very well defined, two people using the same word might not even be talking about the same thing.

When the audio property of interest is nebulous and inadequately defined, the only questions that are meaningful to ask are questions concerned expressly with the definition. What is the definition? Is the concept adequately well defined? How should it be defined?
 

Gorgonzola

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MrPeabody ... are speed and resolution obscure terms?

To us audiophile "speed" usually means crisp dynamics, (or some people use the silly term "PRaT"). Resolution is even more obvious, i.e. detail.
 
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