Can a center channel improve stereo music?

[Anton S]

The title of the thread is the use of centre speaker on stereo “music,” where the speaker is fed via a sound processor (up mixer). I think the use of a physical or phantom centre speaker used for a multi-channel film soundtrack is a different discussion.

Not necessarily. I can upmix to however many channels I like with my pre-pro, depending on which speaker profile and upmixer I select. For the first couple years after I bought the pre-pro, I listened to stereo music titles in 11.1.4 and it did a great job anchoring music that was mixed to stage center very well.

I've recently switched to 10.1.4 (no signal to my front center) and running stereo music through an old Carver Sonic Hologram Generator that I can switch in and out of the analog signal path. Instrument timbre sounds a bit more natural to me in this mode, and the phantom center image remains reasonably solid and well placed across a fairly broad spread.

 

[pablolie]

Stereo music isn't recorded to be heard with a center channel. I'd contend if you need a center channel to hear the center, you didn't set up your stereo system to sound optimally for your seating position. I have never had an issue ever with a weak center because I "only" use two speakers (well and a sub or two).

 

[Sirius Black]

When I got my AVR (that is capable of Dolby PL IIx), it really revolutionized my music experience. For reference, I tried adjusting the Centre width, and playing around with Panorama and Dimension settings. I found that leaving them on default was what I liked best (CW = 3, Pan = off, Dimension = 0). I compared that with 2-Ch Stereo, and for me, The PL IIx was way more enjoyable, immersive and realistic. I also find that diminishing the Centre by either utilizing the CW, or using 2-Ch for music didn't do it for me (I was intrigued about the CW settings and tried them on a variety of music genres). The Centre added something that was "good". And having the upmix was great.
Thanks for whoever posted that out-of-phase/in-phase video btw. I added that to the other speaker configuration test files I already had as I didn't have anyone that did phase differences.

An update: I've changed my mind regarding the CW settings.
I now use and prefer a CW of 0, with Pan and Dimension still Off.
Centre should play centre. FL and FR should play their channels, as should all the other channels. Each being discrete and doing their jobs.
It really sounds fantastic and long may the tunes continue

 

[saberger0357]

I have taken to using a center channel with DSU for my stereo recordings and enjoy the effect. My center channel varies depending on what my L/R's are, but usually it's either a Polk RTA 12C or a JBL L100t3. To my ears, everything is fleshed out more. There is sound that comes from my surrounds, but as I have them set the primary presentation is from L/R, with center next but set a lower volume then L/R. It all works out quite nice, again to my ears.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

Stereo improves with 2 subs. A 2.2 layout with subs playing each channel low bass enlarges the sound scene even putting those subs behind your head.

 

[olds1959special]

I play stereo music in 5.1 and most of the time I like the center channel turned on. I send the L/R to the center but turn it down 3dB. I also flip the phase on the rear speakers. The subwoofer is in the front of the room facing towards the listener (below the L/R speakers) so the subs phase is set to 0.

Apparently Frank Sinatra liked the center "fill" channel too:

 

[pablolie]

For stereo, a *well* setup stereo is clearly optimal, since that's what the production/recording/mastering did clearly target. No way around that basic fact. It will be impossible to avoid some center bias with a center channel, clearly. But again - your stereo has to be set up so that the center is sharp - personally I have never had an issue with that. I also listen to all movies in stereo, and the dialogue is very clear (and sharply centered when so intended). I do have a sub, but it's crossed over at 70Hz, so utterly immaterial for left-right resolution.

 

[olds1959special]

For stereo, a *well* setup stereo is clearly optimal, since that's what the production/recording/mastering did clearly target. No way around that basic fact. It will be impossible to avoid some center bias with a center channel, clearly. But again - your stereo has to be set up so that the center is sharp - personally I have never had an issue with that. I also listen to all movies in stereo, and the dialogue is very clear (and sharply centered when so intended). I do have a sub, but it's crossed over at 70Hz, so utterly immaterial for left-right resolution.

In 5.1 you also have the rears playing which don't have a center channel, so it helps add back some of the lost stereo image.

 

[PGansz]

Using the DTS:Neural X upmix is great and so are atmos mixed songs. Greatly prefer the envelopment to normal stereo.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

Well designed and well positioned stereo layout creates a well defined center phantom.
The problem is how to achieve that without DSP and other tricks on regular rooms without treatment.

Another fact is: how the source has been recorded? If it was stereo (as 98% of music), try to use stereo only layout . If it was 5.1/7.1 (as 80% of movies) then try a surround sound layout.

I’m more focused on music. I prefer to create an envelope of sound just by improving bass, and not by adding speakers that affect directionality is sound. A 2.2 or 2.4 layout is preferable to my ears.

In music is weird to have a voice or any instrument behind you, so any 200hz and above sound should arrive in front of you, and no speaker should be behind or above you.

But movies are different. You could have voices/explosions behind/above you and the speakers and subwoofers should create that envelope of sound.

 

[Karlinamillion]

Stereo, is, by definition, 2 channels, so the centre speaker will be silent.....

 

[Andysu]

Using the DTS:Neural X upmix is great and so are atmos mixed songs. Greatly prefer the envelopment to normal stereo.

dolby labs trashy dsu sounds phasy whooshy when used with typical music , there dsu cheap upmixer is garbage junk , strange none of the cat150 cards have that phasy artefact , i try to avoid using dsu , dts neural x oddly doesn't have that phasy effect on centre ( when used with stereo or 4.2.4 matrix mixes ) yet i don't like how or where what of the matrix 7 channel is being used on the chips inside these trashy avr or trashy stormaudio , even trinnov
it is after all a modified sounding dolby pro-logic IIx or dts neo each company wants to reduce crosstalk , but dolby's dsu is junk

 

[dlaloum]

Stereo, is, by definition, 2 channels, so the centre speaker will be silent.....

Stereo is by definition, something that provide a tangible sense of a 3D image - it is unrelated to the number of channels. (The word's origin is the Greek word stereos (στερεός), meaning "firm," "solid," or "three-dimensional". )

The earliest use of the term in Audio was applied to systems that had 3 channels Left Center Right - that was the first STEREO sound.

Later the prevalence and spread of Vinyl as the main mass market distribution mechanism for recordings, and the development of 2 channel encoding on vinyl, then led to "Stereo" being applied to the more limited 2 channel format - but high end versions of that 2 channel format, still used 3 speakers L/C/R... (by this time we are talking about the 1950's, heading towards the 1960's).

In fact modern surround systems are more "stereo" than most 2 channel setups!

 

[Karlinamillion]

Ah yes, maybe I should have said 'AB stereo '

 

[Andysu]

centre channel , real centre channel here JBL professional motion picture standards of THX
die hard AC-3 only version pressing with theatrical mix dynamic range on laserdisc only
watch stage right , oh that 70mm original on AC-3 proper dynamic range in THX high end game

 

[Miniyouuuu]

Stereo might not be exactly two channel, but in the evolution from mono (single channel), for many years until cuadraphonic systems and later 5.1/7.1/Dolby surround systems, it is assumed as 2 channel. In those systems center is always a phantom image created by adding both channels in time.

Any higher than 2 speakers using just 2 channels will require upmixing. And center speaker create a physical interference that has to be considered. Be careful.

I personally don’t like upmixing and other than native surround music, I’ll prefer 2.0/2.1/2.4 systems.

 

[Anton S]

...

I personally don’t like upmixing and other than native surround music, I’ll prefer 2.0/2.1/2.4 systems.

De gustibus non disputandum est.

 

[sfogg]

Stereo is by definition, something that provide a tangible sense of a 3D image - it is unrelated to the number of channels. (The word's origin is the Greek word stereos (στερεός), meaning "firm," "solid," or "three-dimensional". )

The earlies use of the term in Audio was applied to systems that had 3 channels Left Center Right - that was the first STEREO sound.

Later the prevalence and spread of Vinyl as the main mass market distribution mechanism for recordings, and the development of 2 channel encoding on vinyl, then led to "Stereo" being applied to the more limited 2 channel format - but high end versions of that 2 channel format, still used 3 speakers L/C/R... (by this time we are talking about the 1950's, heading towards the 1960's).

In fact modern surround systems are more "stereo" than most 2 channel setups!

This!

Bell labs in their very early experiences with "more than mono" realized the need for a center channel and had three channel demonstrations. The reality was there wasn't a delivery system available at the time for 3 channels.

Paul Klipsch wrote numerous papers about deriving a center channels (and rear) in what would eventually come to be known as the Hafler matrix.

 

[sfogg]

In music is weird to have a voice or any instrument behind you, so any 200hz and above sound should arrive in front of you, and no speaker should be behind or above you.

Ever heard live music in a concert hall? The hall contributes a great deal to the sound and provides the ambiance to the performers.

Unless your room is concert hall sized the only way you can reproduce the same effect is with speakers to the sides and rear and up top helps too. The real trick is what you feed those channels. It isn't about moving instruments behind or above you, it is about providing the spatial cues of the acoustic space in the recording from the proper directions. Check out the attached document starting on page 4 (pdf page 7).

Done poorly, it sounds bad.

Done well, is something else entirely.

 

[olds1959special]

I added a “center” channel speaker (actually a small stereo speaker) and I plugged the bass port to reduce the bass so that it would blend better with my other speakers.

It’s actually a portable Bluetooth speaker but it has an aux input and can run off wall power. (Marley Get Together) The only downside is it resets itself to a lower volume when I turn it off. I may leave it on all the time but I’m not sure if it will shut itself off.