Cambridge CXA81 MKII Amplifier Review

[peng]

No consumer needs to start calculating anything. We need proper standardization here instead of wild west of gains we have now. Worse yet, such is not even documented.

In our world, hundreds of products have support for 2/4 volt as a source. We need to get the rest of the industry that is ignoring this transformation to pay attention and snap to this de-facto standard, which ironically was established by Sony/Philips some 40 years ago!

Sure, but we are not there yet. Though there is no need to guess if one can afford the well spec'ed gear. That CA integrated is, unfortunately not one of those, so it may or may not have enough voltage, depending on the individual use case to a large extent.

As it is now, 2 V may not be enough for some use cases, but could be plenty for a lot of cases, so ues for those who cares, and/or ocd type, calculate, to confirm one's need may be a good idea, for some..

 

[pablolie]

That's fair to an extent. But I think a lot of this community, at least, is generally celebrating transparent electronics getting cheaper and cheaper, and even the SINAD chasing is happening at price points well below this particular product. And if one is chasing audible improvements to their system, this is not the place to spend your $1200. That price and it doesn't even include some sort of room correction or a parametric EQ in this day and age. (At least not that I could find, and trying to bring up the manual on their website just results in an error screen.)

I agree 80%, because I also think we always need to leave room for individual choices that are not solely dictated by a dry, rational price/performance ratio, which typically is not the sole consideration in our hobbies.

Ultimately, it's up to individuals to decide which combination of performance/features/design/price/tactile_stuff they enjoy. Personally, while I like -even demand- a nice design, the desirability thereof decreases steeply with price unless there is performance equivalent to match cheaper alternatives (and then you may add the premium for design etc.).

I enjoy both extremes in this hobby of ours, i.e. the amazing outright performance you can achieve at very affordable cost points these days, as well as the far more eccentric choices of people that just *know* what they like. I do however roll my eyes in pity at the occasional fool that pontifies (and yet clearly knows zero about system design considerations) how every other system that isn't his 6 or t7 figure system -that was just put there by a consultant anyhow- is just not good.

But I'd also like to point out the system under discussion here doesn't at all have one of those esoteric audiophile price points.

 

[restorer-john]

No consumer needs to start calculating anything. We need proper standardization here instead of wild west of gains we have now. Worse yet, such is not even documented.

In our world, hundreds of products have support for 2/4 volt as a source. We need to get the rest of the industry that is ignoring this transformation to pay attention and snap to this de-facto standard, which ironically was established by Sony/Philips some 40 years ago!

There you go again (pun intended).

You cannot have a single "standard" in dB for power amplifier gains. Think about it.

You can have a standard for sensitivity in volts for full rated power. And we have had pretty reasonable adherence over many decades.

And the Philips/Sony 2V number was absolutely ridiculous at the time, when pretty much all line level sensitivities were running a defacto standard of 150mV-200mV. It was a last minute change from the actual industry agreed output level for compact disc, which was to be 1.4V. The reason? Sony wanted to be loudest on the sales floor and be able to potentially better demonstrate the dynamic range without running into noise. Several other Japanese manufacturers had already shipped first generation players to dealers/distributors with the standard 1.4V output and had to issue service bulletins to modify the unsold machines so they weren't at a disadvantage.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

It should be noted that the CXA81 can be bought from the Cambridge ebay store for FAR less than list. I bought one for (I think) $800 or so directly from Cambridge a couple of years ago and it serves nicely. I understand it should perform better and it's disappointing that Cambridge has not upped its game even after being called out for poor engineering. Still, compared to competitors, at the prices available on the Cambridge ebay store, I find it an appealing, good sounding and convenient unit.

 

[amirm]

You cannot have a single "standard" in dB for power amplifier gains. Think about it.

I don't see why not. If it were up to me, I would mandate a gain level that would reach full power at 2/4 volt (unbalanced/balanced). Companies could optionally add higher and lower gain settings. The former would be for legacy products and the latter for best system SNR.

Not that this would ever happen in this industry but the real solution would be to do away with RCA connectors. Come up with new connection that has a single wire digital communication path that would let the source and destination negotiate the best gain structure with ability to dynamically change it. HDCD has a crude version of this with signaling buried in the digital stream.

 

[ryanmh1]

Their 'listening trials' thing is an embarrassment to them. They could have saved costs on that and just delivered a better measuring product for the same money.

The standard suite of steady state measurements do not necessarily capture everything... Key to conducting measurements is knowing what you are and are not capable of measuring, and understanding the meaning of what you are measuring. Many, many moon ago, I made a bunch of measurements of superb distortion in a particular FM multiplexer, only to have a variety of more well-seasoned veterans point out I couldn't possibly have measured what I thought I did, and what I was seeing on the screen. They were right. Stupid me was actually cancelling out distortion in my own measurement rig with other adjustments in the thing (which had some 30+ adjustable trim pots in it) . On the other hand, my measurements were capable of picking out certain flaws their measurements just couldn't. And once I heard something my measurements were not showing. I could swear I heard it. I did some different measurements I didn't usually do, and it turned out I was hearing something amiss. Sometimes you can indeed hear things that you just need to find the right measurement for. I don't fault anyone for using a listening panel, nor for using it as a tool in the marketing department. For a product designed to be heard, you'd have to be a fool to design it or review it without listening to it. That's too much room for error.

 

[ryanmh1]

99% of the 1% who actually use the pre-outs will be using them for adding sub(s).

They won't even use it for that, since it already has a sub out. Virtually no one who buys this will use them for anything since it's a stereo amp. Yamaha A-S701 is a similar product, with similar measurements, which got a good review but did not include any preouts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[NTTY]

There's nothing inherently wrong about a peak performance via the preamplifier outputs around 1.6V.

In fact, that's pretty much right in the perfect zone for RCA amplifier outputs and sensitivities for power amplifiers like forever. Most RCA (SE) power amplifiers were specified for between 1.0V to 1.5V for full rated output. Their preamp and power amp stages fit that perfectly. In fact, UK and EU sensitivities were at the lower end of that and still are.

Much of this outrage about output levels is coming from people who have never measured a single source at typical listening levels in their whole life, letalone considered or tested a system in its entirety from end to end for sensible gain staging with variable sources.

I can only concur with your comments.

I think this is a decent integrated amplifier with many inputs, and showing more than sufficient performances to make happy owners.

Preamp output will perform well with the vast majority of amplifiers. Future owners now know why to avoid insensitive amplifiers, should they need more power. Thanks to ASR / @amirm.

 

[pablolie]

They won't even use it for that, since it already has a sub out. Virtually no one who buys this will use them for anything since it's a stereo amp. Yamaha A-S701 is a similar product, with similar measurements, which got a good review but did not include any preouts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It is a single sub out though. Many hobbyists these days prefer a stereo sub setup. I haven't read the user manual so I don't know how suitable the pre-out here is for that function. Unless the headphone amp portion is crap (not tested here), it's the only thing I'd consider using the pre-out for.

 

[Doodski]

They won't even use it for that, since it already has a sub out. Virtually no one who buys this will use them for anything since it's a stereo amp. Yamaha A-S701 is a similar product, with similar measurements, which got a good review but did not include any preouts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Yamaha is about 1/2 the price of the Cambridge. So... Not even a comparison feature and capability wise. The Yamaha is a very good value and the Cambridge overpriced.

 

[kyuu]

They won't even use it for that, since it already has a sub out. Virtually no one who buys this will use them for anything since it's a stereo amp.

Cambridge is the one who put the pre-outs there. If there's no demand for them, why do that? And the fact that some people find them useless doesn't excuse executing poorly on a $1000+ device.

Yamaha A-S701 is a similar product, with similar measurements, which got a good review but did not include any preouts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Yamaha is substantially cheaper, actually measures better in several respects (by a small margin, to be fair), and has a fair bit more power. And yeah, they couldn't execute poorly on pre-outs (that apparently no one is going to use) since they didn't include them. Cambridge could have done the same. Though of course that would only (slightly) shift the calculus a bit further on the question: why buy the Cambridge for $1200 when the Yamaha is $800?

 

[pablolie]

The Yamaha is about 1/2 the price of the Cambridge. So... Not even a comparison feature and capability wise. The Yamaha is a very good value and the Cambridge overpriced.

I would not make a hard call based on a 300 buck difference if I much preferred the design or feature or such, though. Hobbies are like that.

 

[Doodski]

Cambridge is the one who put the pre-outs there. If there's no demand for them, why do that? And the fact that some people find them useless doesn't excuse executing poorly on a $1000+ device.

The Yamaha is substantially cheaper, actually measures better in several respects (by a small margin, to be fair), and has a fair bit more power. And yeah, they couldn't execute poorly on pre-outs (that apparently no one is going to use) since they didn't include them. Cambridge could have done the same. Though of course that would only (slightly) shift the calculus a bit further on the question: why buy the Cambridge for $1200 when the Yamaha is $800?

I checked current prices in Canada and the Cambridge is ~$1700 and the Yamaha is sold out but I remember it being ~$800. The Cambridge is overpriced.

 

[Doodski]

I would not make a hard call based on a 300 buck difference if I much preferred the design or feature or such, though. Hobbies are like that.

I checked prices as indicated in post #133 and for some reason the Cambridge is very high priced in Canada. I am not aware of any special higher import duty for UK product.

Cambridge Audio CXA81 MKII Stereo Integrated Amplifier

CXA81 Mk IIIntegrated Stereo AmplifierCXA81 Mk II builds on the success of its multi award-winning predecessors. Cambridge Audio haven’t looked back since making their first integrated amplifier in 1968, always looking for new ways to improve your listening experience – while recognizing that...

baybloorradio.com

Cambridge Audio CXA81 MK II - INTEGRATED STEREO AMPLIFIERS

Cambridge Audio CX Series CXA81 MK II - Amplifier - 2 x 80 Watt - Cambridge Audio - CXA81 MK II AMPLIFICATEURS STÉRÉO INTÉGRÉS

fillion.ca

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Again, per my post above, Cambridge ebay store sells $849 CXA81 open box units. The pricing for the Yamahas and this amp are very close to each other, real world. I own both the A-S801 and the CXA81 and like them both. Of course, I've come to greatly enjoy the little Fosi V3 so much that I'll likely never buy another large 'HiFi' amp again. Still, the Cambridge units can be found at very good prices direct from Cambridge.

 

[kyuu]

Again, per my post above, Cambridge ebay store sells $849 CXA81 open box units. The pricing for the Yamahas and this amp are very close to each other, real world. I own both the A-S801 and the CXA81 and like them both. Of course, I've come to greatly enjoy the little Fosi V3 so much that I'll likely never buy another large 'HiFi' amp again. Still, the Cambridge units can be found at very good prices direct from Cambridge.

Neat. Sounds like Cambridge is having to discount them heavily because the MSRP is too high. Even at comparable prices, though, the Yamaha still measures a bit better in respects and has more power on tap. If you don't give two hoots about the pre-outs, what's the selling point for the Cambridge?

 

[Koeitje]

But this is almost always the case for high fidelity power blocks having only an asymmetrical input...

That isn't the only use case.

 

[Haskil]

That isn't the only use case.

I was responding to your comment which was limited to power amplifiers. Yes, you are right and besides I have already mentioned the case of using a subwoofer with unbalanced RCA inputs. It will also be perfectly possible given their input sensitivity.

 

[Yevhen]

let the source and destination negotiate the best gain structure with ability to dynamically change it

I'm afraid that many final amplifiers are not that flexible, both class AB and D. The gain cannot be randomly adjusted as it defines the depth of the feedback (feed-forward linearization -> THD improvement) and the phase/amplitude balance for stability at high frequencies (for example, a very deep feedback may give you oscillation somewhere between 100kHz-100MHz).

 

[Haskil]

I don't see why not. If it were up to me, I would mandate a gain level that would reach full power at 2/4 volt (unbalanced/balanced). Companies could optionally add higher and lower gain settings. The former would be for legacy products and the latter for best system SNR.

Not that this would ever happen in this industry but the real solution would be to do away with RCA connectors. Come up with new connection that has a single wire digital communication path that would let the source and destination negotiate the best gain structure with ability to dynamically change it. HDCD has a crude version of this with signaling buried in the digital stream.

When the RCA plug became widespread, Europeans weren't too happy: their DIN plugs seemed better... In any case, a single cable could pass a stereo signal and a common ground for both channels, as well as a symmetrical signal. I remember articles in French technical magazines saying how the RCA plug was less good, less practical... And there was also the problem of input levels for tape recorders... But the RCA plug was not standardized, whereas DIN was accompanied by standards, again if memory serves: it was German and DIN was also a series of high-fidelity standards...
And a plug for amateurs that connects the hotspot first is still a pain in the ass... hum...

Your idea of standardizing output and input levels is a good one, but let a Frenchman who lives in a country that has imposed standards on everything it produces since Colbert, the minister of Louis XIV, tell you that if Colbert's standards initially boosted the quality of French products, which became the best of their time in many fields... in a second phase, they were their undoing, because as techniques evolved, standards didn't keep up and decline set in...

But in the current state of technology in the analog field, there's no reason for that to change, so your 2 volts/4 volts is a good idea. And your idea of a new type of connection is particularly interesting: IT is moving a long way in this field, but domestic hifi is still stuck with RCA, the wrong jack plug and banana plugs (banned in Europe for professional use because of the high voltages present at the output of amps, and hifi equipment meeting the standard is sold with plugs in each banana plug that you have to pop out to connect the plug). Or maybe hifi is lagging behind computing... how many devices have an RS232 serial port with the old plug to communicate with a computer... which in turn no longer has one...

and therefore switched to USB... Cables that let you use USB as a serial port have never worked for me: I have a TACT 2.2X, so I bought a second-hand Del XP laptop with RS 232 and its big screw pin...
So yes, I vote for a new intelligent cable, and also, oh so much, for a Wisa-type wireless protocol to enable amplified speakers to communicate with the electronics feeding them with signals...