Cable with one direction

[DanielT]

I traded a few things with a friend this weekend. He had cables that seemed to be well shielded so I took them. I thought it wouldn't hurt to have better shielded RCA cables than what I have now. I have no problem with my cables picking up noise, but you know, HiFi neurosis can crept in. Best to be on the safe side just in case and so on.

To the topic of the thread! On the cable it says: High End PLUS High Resolution Interconnect Cable UPOCC
May be as it is with it but after where it says UPOCC there are three arrows, see picture. I'm guessing that these arrows are supposed to show how to connect the cables from the signal source to the amplifier to get the best sound?
I thought that was a bit funny. I never cease to be amazed by this weird Hifi world. For quirky in cubic, you should of course check out what is considered "High End". There are, as you know, big gold mines of weirdness.

I don't know the brand of the cable.

Right now I only have those blue cables, so suggestions for good, sensible RCA connectors are welcome. RCA connectors that are easy to work with, i.e. are well constructed that make it easy to solder cables to them, please let me know.

 

[joqueval]

I thought the same when I received these cables a few days ago, to make a bridge.
I think that the cosine of the internal braiding angle in relation to the alignment with respect to the magnetic axis of the earth, improves signal transmission.
Ironic mode XD

.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

Single-ended cables such as those with RCA connectors in which only one end of the shield is attached to ground and the other end is floated can be seen as "directional." The point of such an arrangement is to sacrifice some of the benefit of shielding in order to reduce capacitance.

 

[DanielT]

Single-ended cables such as those with RCA connectors in which only one end of the shield is attached to ground and the other end is floated can be seen as "directional." The point of such an arrangement is to sacrifice some of the benefit of shielding in order to reduce capacitance.

So wait now. Maybe it has a practical purpose? I coldly assumed it was Hifi waffle, but I could be wrong.

I wonder. Blue casing, then copper, white insulation then copper, white insulation, then in some blue, then some copper. As it looks. Hmm. I didn't check that.

Are there cables intended to be balanced? But do they usually look like that? Coax cable?



Cables for balanced, to mount XLR connectors, usually look more like this, as far as I know:

 

[Bob from Florida]

If you take a shielded cable with an internal twisted pair - that can be directional. The twisted pair is connected at both ends to the RCA plugs - center pin and outside maintaining polarity on the RCA's. The shield is then connected at the "source" end of the cable only and the "arrows" point to the destination end. Idea being that any noise coupled to the shield drains back to the source "ground". If you connect the shield at both ends then it makes no difference which end plugs in - source or destination.
Now, you will see marketing BS about how company XYZ labels their cable directionality because the wire is "drawn" a certain "way" in manufacturing and that is the way electrons "flow" best. Complete BS that preys on the susceptibility of audio nuts to the power of suggestion.

 

[DanielT]

Thanks for the clarification.

I guess I'm asking for trouble. In the near future from my DAC, via unbalanced RCA, into my two subwoofers, then RCA out from the subwoofers, with the HP filter set to either 50,80 or 100 Hz..


..to an active crossover (LD Systems X 223) ..



...and from it unbalanced out (possibly balanced to the amp that will power the bass driver) to two amplifiers that power up the bass and tweeter in my speakers. It kind of smells like a problem here even before I got started and plugged it in. Although I don't know, maybe I'm just painting the devil on the wall so to speak.

In any case, repainting the living room and new skirting boards are to be installed there, so for now my subwoofers are in storage.

 

[Basilderat]

My QED RCA graphite cables have this:

Electrostatic Screen
Provides immunity from external high voltage noise signals. Only connected at the source equipment end hence the directionality arrows on the cable jacket.

 

[nerdstrike]

USB-C cables that are not spec compliant can be "one-way", but that's rotationally rather than longitudinally

 

[dualazmak]

Even though I assume all of you know very well, high-speed high-resolution "optical" HDMI cables do have "one direction"!

I actually use one of these, 10-m long AOC 8K/60Hz 4K/120Hz optical HDMI cable, connecting into Panasonic 55-inch 4K OLED TV (as second PC monitor) from my audio-visual Windows PC; very nice for 4K/120Hz or 4K/60Hz signal transfer into the 4K OLED TV with slim and light optical HDMI cable even 10-m away from my PC (ref. Fig.21 in post #931 on my project thread).

 

[theREALdotnet]

I find that power cords and XLR interconnects are generally directional.

 

[dualazmak]

I find that power cords and XLR interconnects are generally directional.

When I came into audio enjoyment hobby world in my young era, my audio-advisory guy, who was in pro-audio world, taught me in non-elegant wording;
"You need to remember in this way; Male XLR should only output/ejaculate signals, Female XLR should only accept the signals, in any setup of audio gears."

 

[AnalogSteph]

It kind of smells like a problem here even before I got started and plugged it in.

Better anticipate it now than curse later, right?

Which DAC exactly do you have and what is it connected to, or is it isolated via Toslink or a USB isolator?

The sub seems to be a Yamaha YST-SW300 (thanks, Google image search), that's an IEC Class II device with 2-prong mains plug.

If the power amplifiers with unbalanced input are going to be hi-fi units along the same lines, I don't foresee any major problems just as long as the DAC is kept galvanically isolated on the input side, and ideally of the floating variety on the mains side as well. (I hope you have grounded mains outlets for the crossover, Sweden was a bit late in adopting them if memory serves.)

You may have a bit of difficulty reconciling home and pro audio levels, although I think the input and output gain controls should just about give you enough leeway.

What I'm a bit worried about is that this kind of crossover tends to be way too crude and inflexible as a proper speaker XO. It is likely that you'll have to straighten out driver responses passively to make it work. This is advisable for reducing tweeter sensitivity and notching out breakup modes anyway. (No, not everything about a passive XO is bad. A hybrid approach can be better than either purely active or purely passive.)

 

[dualazmak]

...
...
You may have a bit of difficulty reconciling home and pro audio levels, although I think the input and output gain controls should just about give you enough leeway.

What I'm a bit worried about is that this kind of crossover tends to be way too crude and inflexible as a proper speaker XO. It is likely that you'll have to straighten out driver responses passively to make it work. This is advisable for reducing tweeter sensitivity and notching out breakup modes anyway. (No, not everything about a passive XO is bad. A hybrid approach can be better than either purely active or purely passive.)

I essentially agree with you.

And furthermore, we should not exclude the relative gain control(s) in analog domain, in combination with upstream digital domain gain control(s).
In other words, we should not exclude the use of HiFi-grade "pre-amplifier + power-amplifier" and/or "integrated-amplifier" in analog domain to drive SP drivers.

My stance (policy) at least, is that we are encouraged to utilize the "best combination" of "DSP configuration in digital domain" and "analog domain tone controls using HiFi-grade preamplifiers and/or integrated amplifiers".

Spoiler

I recently wrote in my post #931 on my project thread as follows;

Here in this post, please let me emphasize again about the pros and merits of relative gain (i.e. tone) control not only in digital domain but also in analog domain using pre-amplifiers or integrated-amplifiers (in my setup). I recently wrote again in my post #56 on a remote thread like these;
Yes, as for safe and flexible tone controls (or I can say "relative gain controls among the multiple SP drivers"), my stance (policy) at least, is that we are encouraged to utilize the "best combination" of "DSP configuration in digital domain" and "analog domain tone controls using HiFi-grade preamplifiers and/or integrated amplifiers".

We need to note (and to respect for) that analog domain tone controls (relative gain controls among the multiple SP drivers) give no effect nor influence at all on the upstream DSP configuration (XO/EQ/Gain/Phase/Polarity/Group-Delay). I believe that this is a great merit of flexible tone controls in analog domain. We know well, on the other hand, in case if we would like to do the "tone/gain controls" only within DSP configurations, such DSP gain controls always affect more-or-less on "XO" "EQ" "phase" and "delay" of the DSP settings which will leads you to possible endless DSP tuning spirals every time; within DSP configurations, XO EQ Gain Phase and Delay are always not independent with each other, but they are always interdependent/on-interaction.

Just for your possible reference, my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier active system has flexible and safe analog level on-the-fly relative gain controls (in addition to upstream on-the-fly DSP gain controls) for L&R subwoofers, woofers, midrange-squawkers, tweeters, and super-tweeters, all independently and remotely. My post here shows you a typical example case for such safe and flexible on-the-fly analog-level tone controls. This my post (as well as this post) would be also of your interest.

Of course, I know well that I (we) can also perform such relative gain control using DAC8PRO’s 8-channel output gain controllers. I do not like, however, to change the DAC8PRO’s output levels frequently on-the-fly (while listening to music) due to safety and inconvenience concerns; I like to keep DAC8PRO’s analog out gain level always at constant -4 dB which should remain to be usually “untouchable” in my case.

One of the very unique aspects/features of my multichannel audio rig is that I fully utilize four HiFi-grade “integrated amplifiers” plus L&R active subwoofers, each of them have its own gain (volume) controller for safe and flexible relative gain (tone) control in analog domain even on-the-fly i.e. while listening to music.

In this perspective, my posts #438 and #643 should also give you better understandings. Furthermore, my posts #317(remote thread), #313(remote thread) would be also of your reference and interest.

 

[DanielT]

Better anticipate it now than curse later, right?

Which DAC exactly do you have and what is it connected to, or is it isolated via Toslink or a USB isolator?

The sub seems to be a Yamaha YST-SW300 (thanks, Google image search), that's an IEC Class II device with 2-prong mains plug.

If the power amplifiers with unbalanced input are going to be hi-fi units along the same lines, I don't foresee any major problems just as long as the DAC is kept galvanically isolated on the input side, and ideally of the floating variety on the mains side as well. (I hope you have grounded mains outlets for the crossover, Sweden was a bit late in adopting them if memory serves.)

You may have a bit of difficulty reconciling home and pro audio levels, although I think the input and output gain controls should just about give you enough leeway.

What I'm a bit worried about is that this kind of crossover tends to be way too crude and inflexible as a proper speaker XO. It is likely that you'll have to straighten out driver responses passively to make it work. This is advisable for reducing tweeter sensitivity and notching out breakup modes anyway. (No, not everything about a passive XO is bad. A hybrid approach can be better than either purely active or purely passive.)

That's right, I have Yamaha YST-SW300 subwoofers. You might consider them vintage these days, but I like them. They are measured, 22 Hz f3. Totally ok for me.

I have a Topping E30 DAC, which does not have balanced outputs but if it will cause problems I will sell it and buy a DAC with balanced outputs.

Yes, I have grounded electrical outlets. Maybe Sweden were a little late in introducing it as a law, standard:

Requirements for grounded wall sockets in new construction, conversions and extensions of electrical installations were introduced on 1 July 1994. Requirements for ground fault circuit breakers for indoor sockets with a maximum rated current of 16 amperes came into force on 1 January 2000.

There is no regulation that says an owner of an older property must replace ungrounded outlets with grounded ones. In homes built before 1994, there is usually one (or more) grounded wall sockets in the kitchen.

Ojordade uttag | Elsäkerhetsverket

www.elsakerhetsverket.se

For this thread, everything below is OT, best to mention it:
Actually, I should probably solve the crossover in the digital world, but now that I have my active crossover, so I'll try it first.
LD X223 is not super flexible. The filter itself is a 4th Order Linkwitz Riley Crossover Filter. A good thing about LD X223 is that the crossover positions are fixed. Then it will be the same on both channels. The disadvantage is, of course, that it reduces the possibility of setting an exact crossover point.
I will set the crossover point to the fixed position 2.5 kHz (or if it was 2.6 kHz I don't remember right now). It, 2.5-2.6 kHz, goes well with the bass (SB15NBAC30-4) tweeter (SB26ADC-C000-4). Then I place the bass and tweeter at a suitable c-c distance. Unevenness in FR should be able to be fixed with EQ. In theory, it should work anyway.

A physical protective capacitor for the tweeter might not be so stupid to have. If the tweeter is too "hot" then definitely a resistor but I can also put gain in and out on the active crossover filter:


...plus the amplifiers have volume control.

Speaking of what you said, if I remember correctly Purifi showed how a passive notch filter reduced distortion, with some example they had.
I think there is a thread about this on ASR ...and after a search, it is addressed by MAB in this thread:

Active DSP DIY speakers, for testing a few ideas

FFLOTSAM (Fabricated From LeftOver Things Studio Active Monitor) Active DSP speakers, for testing a few ideas I had some stuff lying around; a few random Baltic Birch-ply panels, some countertop material, a few cans of partially used brown spray paint, and some not-too clumpy spar varnish (that...

audiosciencereview.com

Letting the bass driver SB15NBAC30-4 operating from 100 Hz is actually on the limit as I see it, but it should or it can work. In a 5.5 liter sealed box, F3 will be 107Hz, F6 will be 69Hz and F10 will be 47Hz. Plus that distortion with SB15NBAC30-4 starts to increase from with 200 Hz and downwards, so optimal should really be to use that driver in a three-way construction with crossover point around 300 Hz then, but I can still try with my subwoofers now that I have them anyway.

And a small 5.5 liter test box is easy and cheap to make so why not.
SB15NBAC30-4:

SB Acoustics SB15NBAC30-4 | HiFiCompass

The THD measurements at distance of 20 mm and voltage levels from 4 to 5.6 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (4th order Butterworth type, 20 Hz cutoff, HPF4-20). The THD measurements at distance of 315 mm and voltage levels from 2 to 4 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter...

hificompass.com

In a 5.5 liter sealed box:

 

[dualazmak]

That's right, I have Yamaha YST-SW300 subwoofers. You might consider them vintage these days, but I like them. They are measured, 22 Hz f3. Totally ok for me.

Very pleased to know we are in the same league; I too still very much like my L&R Yamaha YST-SW1000!
- https://audio-heritage.jp/YAMAHA/speaker/yst-sw1000.html

Spoiler

Just for example....
- Reproduction and listening/hearing/feeling sensations to 16 Hz (organ) sound with my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio system having big-heavy active L&R sub-woofers: #782
- A nice smooth-jazz album for bass (low Fq) and higher Fq tonality check and tuning: #63(remote thread)

 

[Descartes]

Never seen Belden, Mogami of Canaree cables directional and those three brands as are used by 99% of recording studios!

 

[egellings]

Single-ended cables such as those with RCA connectors in which only one end of the shield is attached to ground and the other end is floated can be seen as "directional." The point of such an arrangement is to sacrifice some of the benefit of shielding in order to reduce capacitance.

The capacitance of the cable would be the same if one or both ends have ground connections. Purpose of one end only having a connection is to break a ground loop that could cause hum or other interference in the system.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

The capacitance of the cable would be the same if one or both ends have ground connections. Purpose of one end only having a connection is to break a ground loop that could cause hum or other interference in the system.

My language was too vague.

Here’s are some comprehensive descriptions of what happens in a variety of balanced and unbalanced circuits used in a variety of applications. As we can see, it isn’t a one size fits all proposition:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/cable-shield

 

[Bob from Florida]

Purpose of one end only having a connection is to break a ground loop that could cause hum or other interference in the system.

Think about this - connecting the shield at one end only is possible only if you have 2 wires inside the shield. One wire is for the center pin on the RCA plugs and the other wire is for the outer connection on the RCA's. There is no "ground" loop breaking going on in this instance.

 

[DanielT]

So it can be summed up with this picture, what is mentioned above? Semi-balanced RCA cable, that is:

Edit:
Do you have experience with semi-balanced RCA cables? Please share your experiences about it. Semi vs unbalanced RCA cables, what do you think?