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Cable directionality on The Astoria? Are cables different on boats?

JustJones

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I came across this old article from 2005 and was sucked in because well it's about Pink Floyd. About 2/3 into the article , page 17 , they started talking about cable direction, even the mains grounding, sounded different according to direction?

But even more surprisingly,
we said for a laugh, let’s just turn the cable around the other way and see if we can hear any
directional difference on the technical earth cable. And we couldn’t believe it, but we could.

https://www.davidgilmour.com/press/2005/march/TapeOp_March05.pdf
 

Blake Klondike

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I have been wondering the same thing for 15 years-- I have heard badly shielded cords make a substantial difference, but never directionally. But, I would expect these guys to be able to hear the difference. That was a Tape Op interview, which everyone on ASR would really enjoy, I think.
 

restorer-john

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I came across this old article from 2005 and was sucked in because well it's about Pink Floyd. About 2/3 into the article , page 17 , they started talking about cable direction, even the mains grounding, sounded different according to direction?

I knew it was going downhill on page 14 when I read this:

1620951522695.png


Thanks for posting the article though, it's fascinating. :)
 
OP
J

JustJones

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It's an interesting article about how they outfitted the boat, but yeah some of it is out there.
 

escksu

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AFAIK, the direction of cables is due to termination rather than cable itself. This is because the drain for the shielding is solder to ground wire. Hence this will only be done for the source connect. The direction provides a way to identify which end should be connected to source and which to the amp.
 

mansr

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AFAIK, the direction of cables is due to termination rather than cable itself. This is because the drain for the shielding is solder to ground wire. Hence this will only be done for the source connect. The direction provides a way to identify which end should be connected to source and which to the amp.
Yes, some cables are built asymmetrically. Nobody disputes that. The audiophool cable vendors additionally claim that the wire itself is directional, some even insisting that they listen to each reel of bulk wire to determine which direction sounds best. That is crazy talk.
 

escksu

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Yes, some cables are built asymmetrically. Nobody disputes that. The audiophool cable vendors additionally claim that the wire itself is directional, some even insisting that they listen to each reel of bulk wire to determine which direction sounds best. That is crazy talk.

Hmm, Regarding this. I am not sure but maybe. Would need to measure. Reason for this is that bulk cable is wound up in a spool. This means its essentially an aircore inductor. The inductance and attenuation is not linear throughout the spool. So, i know if
 
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mansr

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Hmm, Regarding this. I am not sure but maybe. Would need to measure. Reason for this is that bulk cable is wound up in a spool. This means its essentially an aircore inductor. The inductance and attenuation is not linear throughout the spool. So, i know if
Are you suggesting wire remembers where it once was on a spool, like some kind of homoeopathy? Still doesn't explain the supposed directional behaviour.
 

Valhalla

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You should abide by the direction of the cable according to it's printing as electrons are inquisitive creatures and tend to read the printings while they pass through the cable, so if they are passing from right to left they would have less chance for reading the cable details properly (considering the light speed) and might feel nausea
hypo.gif
and ruin the sound at destination to avenge.
 

Speedskater

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Hmm, Regarding this. I am not sure but maybe. Would need to measure. Reason for this is that bulk cable is wound up in a spool. This means its essentially an aircore inductor. The inductance and attenuation is not linear throughout the spool. So, i know if
Well no it's not an inductor. An inductor only has one conductor and a cable has two conductors.
 

MarkS

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Um, no. A uniform two-wire cable has inductance per unit length and capacitance per unit length (and the product of the two is one over the speed of light squared in the material between the wires).

Imagine shorting the two wires at each end of the cable, and this forming a long thin loop. That's the inductor.

https://engineering.purdue.edu/wcchew/ece604f20/Lecture Notes/Lect11.pdf

If the cable is not precisely uniform (e.g., crimp a coax cable slightly at some random point along its length), the inductance and capacitance will not be uniform, and this will make the cable's impedance properties differ depending on which end is connected to the amp and which to the load. (There was a long thread here on this recently.) However, this is entirely irrelevant at audio frequencies for cable lengths less than a mile or so.
 
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Speedskater

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We are co-mingling three different ideas here.
1] An inductor is a two terminal physical component. It's impedance increases as frequency increases.
2] A two conductor (or more) cable has Resistance, Capacitance and Induction.
3] A transmission line is a specific type of cable circuit.
 

mansr

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We are co-mingling three different ideas here.
1] An inductor is a two terminal physical component. It's impedance increases as frequency increases.
2] A two conductor (or more) cable has Resistance, Capacitance and Induction.
3] A transmission line is a specific type of cable circuit.
I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about the notion that the "sound" of a single strand of copper depends on the direction. Sheer lunacy is what that is.
 

Tom Danley

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Direction is a concept that doesn't really apply when the information the cable transfer's is an AC signal.
On the other hand, as opposed to a measurement or done "blind" our "hearing" involves what we see and know as well as what reaches our ears.
Here are two examples, the first shows how your eyes can dominate what you hear and the second, well you'll get it.
try these;

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/72587/mcgurk-effect-or-brains-are-weird

go to 5 min point

https://shaneberry.com/audio-myths-workshop-repost/

Best,
Tom Danley
 

MarkS

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Direction is a concept that doesn't really apply when the information the cable transfer's is an AC signal.
As a general principle, this is wrong, as was amply discussed on that other thread. If the cable is not uniform along its length, and is not symmetric when ends are swapped, then it is in fact directional. However, this effect is completely negligible at audio frequencies for cable lengths under a mile or so.
 

NTK

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As a general principle, this is wrong, as was amply discussed on that other thread. If the cable is not uniform along its length, and is not symmetric when ends are swapped, then it is in fact directional. However, this effect is completely negligible at audio frequencies for cable lengths under a mile or so.
The problem with the thread you mentioned was that somebody had the audacity to call such a contraption "cable".
 

Speedskater

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As a general principle, this is wrong, as was amply discussed on that other thread. If the cable is not uniform along its length, and is not symmetric when ends are swapped, then it is in fact directional. However, this effect is completely negligible at audio frequencies for cable lengths under a mile or so.
Well a cable with a defect at some point on it's length, when used as a radio frequency transmission line, will have impedance irregularities at different frequencies depending on which end is the source.
But of course this has nothing to do with audio cables! It's just a trick that marketing departments do. That is they take engineering knowledge out of context and misapply it.
 
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