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By request: Any appetite for/chance of a "vintage electronics measurement and discussion" section?

JayGilb

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Measurements before and after restoration would be very interesting.
It would be fun to see if $400 dollars worth of electrolytic caps or the $200 dollars of opamp upgrades made a measurable difference.
 
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rdenney

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Vintage need not be defined to specifically. I think that if it's old enough that those who are into digital streaming through headphone amps into $1000 cans think of it as owned by middle-aged or old fat white guys who spend their days shaking their fists at the clouds and running little kids off their lawns, it's old enough.

Rick "even if it was made in 2010" Denney
 

fpitas

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fpitas

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mhardy6647

mhardy6647

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They might conceivably fetch a good price.
Not this (non) pair. The K-15 is genuine Karlson and its condition isn't too bad.
The 12 inch Karlson Klone (I believe it was made by Pioneer, i.e., Fukuin) is ugly.
 

Sokel

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What's most interesting about this vintage machines is the very reason that still operate,some of them remarkably well.
So,it would be nice to get the reasons and the engineering behind the ones who succeeded and passed the most demanding test: time.
 

DanielT

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Here are some vintage receivers on display. They can be nice to look at::)


There is a listening test at the end of the video, at 29:30, where different receivers are tested. What I wonder about is how come you hear such a big difference between them? Are the speakers they are tested with, Pioneer HPM-100, so very demanding that it makes this difference in the sound? Maybe it could be that he who demonstrated them did not check that all tone controls on all receivers were set to neutral? Could it be worn electronics that create the reason for the sonic differences? Or what do you think? Listen and you will hear differences.

These were the speakers used in the test:


Edit:
To hear difference of a recording which is then played via Youtube (I listen via headphones). How is that possible? Weird, right?
 
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DanielT

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This video fits well in this thread, I think. :)

Gabster describes how the measuring equipment and associated software work. Tips are given on building another input output card, among other things.
Plus FR and distortion measurements.The Marantz 2270 being tested seems to have something wrong with it.The Sansui and the McIntosh MC275 seem to work as they should.

 

DanielT

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Here are some vintage receivers on display. They can be nice to look at::)


There is a listening test at the end of the video, at 29:30, where different receivers are tested. What I wonder about is how come you hear such a big difference between them? Are the speakers they are tested with, Pioneer HPM-100, so very demanding that it makes this difference in the sound? Maybe it could be that he who demonstrated them did not check that all tone controls on all receivers were set to neutral? Could it be worn electronics that create the reason for the sonic differences? Or what do you think? Listen and you will hear differences.

These were the speakers used in the test:


Edit:
To hear difference of a recording which is then played via Youtube (I listen via headphones). How is that possible? Weird, right?
Addendum to that video. Forget it. He who performs the "test" was turned on the tone controls here and there, up and down, on completely different ways on all receivers. Thus a completely meaningless comparison test.:facepalm:o_O
 

DanielT

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Wow, yes, love the idea!

Thanks for thinking of it.
The problem, or limitations, with measuring vintage is that it is difficult to draw general conclusions from the results. Time and use wear things out, that's just the way it is. One may wonder how it affects test results. For example, this roughly 30-year-old NAD 2200 power amp.Amir:

The inside looks brand new! I have repaired hundreds of amplifiers but never seen one this clean! So not only have the inside components been updated/replaced, but a lot of care has gone into cosmetically cleaning the unit. Peter sent me a long list of parts he has upgraded including reservoir capacitors and such. As a result, I don't know how representative of measurements are of stock units although probably not too far off. Used 2200 go for about US $530 on ebay.


So how to interpret those results? The NAD 2200 is really good, but a NAD 2200 that has not received this extensive service, recap how would such a measure? Something that Amir also comments on:

Overall, I am happy to recommend the NAD 2200. I almost gave it the highest honors but given the upgraded nature of the test unit, and the fact that used amps may have issues, I avoided that. But you could have easily pushed me to give it the golfing panther.

Edit:
I know there is a craze for, for example, old receivers. Most likely, this can be attributed to their looks, but what makes the most sense is that you have knowledge and an interest/hobby to fix, service, repair, replace stuff etc.in old HiFi stuff. It will be needed sooner or later, probably sooner, and hiring a professional repairman who charges by the hour can be really expensive. That if you are really going to use old stuff. Otherwise, it can be fun just to read tests performed on vintage HiFi.:)
 
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D

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The problem, or limitations, with measuring vintage is that it is difficult to draw general conclusions from the results. Time and use wear things out, that's just the way it is. One may wonder how it affects test results. For example, this roughly 30-year-old NAD 2200 power amp.Amir:

The inside looks brand new! I have repaired hundreds of amplifiers but never seen one this clean! So not only have the inside components been updated/replaced, but a lot of care has gone into cosmetically cleaning the unit. Peter sent me a long list of parts he has upgraded including reservoir capacitors and such. As a result, I don't know how representative of measurements are of stock units although probably not too far off. Used 2200 go for about US $530 on ebay.


So how to interpret those results? The NAD 2200 is really good, but a NAD 2200 that has not received this extensive service, recap how would such a measure? Something that Amir also comments on:

Overall, I am happy to recommend the NAD 2200. I almost gave it the highest honors but given the upgraded nature of the test unit, and the fact that used amps may have issues, I avoided that. But you could have easily pushed me to give it the golfing panther.

Edit:
I know there is a craze for, for example, old receivers. Most likely, this can be attributed to their looks, but what makes the most sense is that you have knowledge and an interest/hobby to fix, service, repair, replace stuff etc.in old HiFi stuff. It will be needed sooner or later, probably sooner, and hiring a professional repairman who charges by the hour can be really expensive. That if you are really going to use old stuff. Otherwise, it can be fun just to read tests performed on vintage HiFi.:)
Both restored and untouched would be interesting. Restored because it tells how good it was when it was new. Untouched because it tells how most people would experience it at home. Also if a test of an untouched amplifier shows some issues it may provide a rough guidance of what to expect when buying such a vintage device, what to look after when trying it at the sellers place or at home. Audible ques etc.
 

Anton D

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The problem, or limitations, with measuring vintage is that it is difficult to draw general conclusions from the results. Time and use wear things out, that's just the way it is. One may wonder how it affects test results. For example, this roughly 30-year-old NAD 2200 power amp.Amir:

The inside looks brand new! I have repaired hundreds of amplifiers but never seen one this clean! So not only have the inside components been updated/replaced, but a lot of care has gone into cosmetically cleaning the unit. Peter sent me a long list of parts he has upgraded including reservoir capacitors and such. As a result, I don't know how representative of measurements are of stock units although probably not too far off. Used 2200 go for about US $530 on ebay.


So how to interpret those results? The NAD 2200 is really good, but a NAD 2200 that has not received this extensive service, recap how would such a measure? Something that Amir also comments on:

Overall, I am happy to recommend the NAD 2200. I almost gave it the highest honors but given the upgraded nature of the test unit, and the fact that used amps may have issues, I avoided that. But you could have easily pushed me to give it the golfing panther.

Edit:
I know there is a craze for, for example, old receivers. Most likely, this can be attributed to their looks, but what makes the most sense is that you have knowledge and an interest/hobby to fix, service, repair, replace stuff etc.in old HiFi stuff. It will be needed sooner or later, probably sooner, and hiring a professional repairman who charges by the hour can be really expensive. That if you are really going to use old stuff. Otherwise, it can be fun just to read tests performed on vintage HiFi.:)
Double likes for that!

Great post!
 
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