• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

By request: Any appetite for/chance of a "vintage electronics measurement and discussion" section?

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,213
Likes
24,172
So, there's been some back-corridor murmuring about vintage hifi and ASR* and, as sometimes happens, I come to this place, hat in hand, as something of a de facto spokescreature.
I.e., don't kill the messenger, OK? ;)

There's a moderate, persistent interest in hifi of old, even here at ASR. We've had numerous threads and even a couple of "proper" reviews.
As the title says, is there any appetite to gather the vintage chatter into its own subforum**?

Obviously, there are caveats: it's somewhere between risky and pointless to assess an unrestored, decades-old component's performance qualitatively or quantitatively. Conversely, the quality of 'restoration' can vary widely, so making broad conclusions from an "n=1" test of a "restored" component is, at best, risky, too.
Ironically, loudspeakers may hold up the best over long times, but the vintage examples tend to be big and heavy.

That said, I'd be happy to send @amirm a Radio Shack Minimus-7 to take for a spin-o-rama! They're neither large nor heavy! :)
EDIT: 1) heck, he probably has a pair! 2) it would be interesting to compare his data with that posted by the late, redoubtable "Zilch" in his epochal assessment of those ubiquitous little loudspeakers:


Thanks for your attention! Thoughts?

________________________
* https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...0-measurements-from-stereo-review-1979.30130/
** Personally, I am not a big fan of "Balkanization" ;) of subforums, but some, perhaps many, people do like focused locations for specialized topics. I am a "New posts" clicking kind of guy myself, in full disclosure.
 
Last edited:

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
I think it would be interesting. A lot of vintage stuff (amps especially) has acquired various mods and tweaks over the years. Seeing the measured results of those might be illuminating.
 

sergeauckland

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
3,440
Likes
9,100
Location
Suffolk UK
I would be interested in such a place, as pretty much all my equipment is 'vintage' and I suppose as a reaction to today's mostly 'perfect' kit, I'm increasingly dabbling in vintage kit.
My office system has changed from a 1980s all SS system to a valve- based system using 1950s designs (home built or DIY restored).
My current bench project is building a valve tester as I have tried and failed to repair an old Mullard tester which was so mechanically overcomplicated as to be impossible, at least for my patience, to analyse. It also needed a valve tester to repair the valve tester...
So, yes please.
S
 
OP
mhardy6647

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,213
Likes
24,172
The bigger, badder Minimus morph! :cool:

I used to have one of those (dump find, of course!) but I gave it to a friend for... some purpose he had in mind. [EDIT: based on photographic evidence I actually did have a pair of 'em. Now I am wondering which model I had a single example of?!]
If I still had it [EDIT: them], I'd box it [EDIT: one of them] up and send it... you know... Way Out West to @amirm! :)

way-out-west.jpg
 
Last edited:

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
4,751
Likes
4,633
Location
Sweden - Слава Україні
Good suggestion mhardy6647! I think that sounds superb:)

Edit:
You can pick up some miscellaneous vintage related items on such a section.Concretely, for example search for vintage spare parts.
In addition to measuring and testing vintage, other vintage aspects can also be addressed. For example vintage finds you've made, general nostalgia for vintage stuff that has passed over the years, maybe something vintage you bought now that you longed for as a teenager but couldn't afford at the time and so on.:)
 
Last edited:

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,635
Likes
7,485
Up to @amirm of course, but I would love to see this.

If it does happen, I'd suggest one change to the review format when older gear is reviewed: change the voting choices at the top from the various panthers to a multiple choice selection of reasons certain members here might claim that a poorly-testing vintage unit doesn't change the fact that older gear was better. The choices might be something like:

- "Old caps, must have drifted out of spec"

- "Was engineered for robustness, not bench measurements"

- "THD 20x higher than good modern amps, but still better because BANDWIDTH"

- "Mediocre measurements match manufacturer specs, so still better than modern units made by liars"

- "Measurements meaningless unless done with analogue oscilloscope"

- "Tested brand/unit was always junk; should have tested other other brand/unit that's much better"

:)
 

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,349
Likes
12,545
Location
NorCal
Maybe get @amirm buy-in on this one. If those wanting to send him something would submit to ASR site "ready to test list" then some debate and triage (I'm not qualified) could happen as to priority based on interest. Once a list is created other members might find some test data that already exists and post it. Also some kind fee to cover cost is in order, part of which could from group donations to that specific list, independent of personal favorites. I will bet that Amir's time is his most treasured asset and its always easy to find things for other people to do. I guess I'm behind the idea as I understand it. As an aside, it might be nice to know of other test locations so that the testing doesn't have fall on ASR resources.

I would love to have one of my Nakamichi 620 pure class B tested but not sure which of the three is the best and each weighs 30 lbs.

1677616092410.jpeg
1677616336137.jpeg
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,208
Likes
7,587
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
Due to the nature of the game there will be an excess of used/old audio gear, and a lot of that gear will still be useful/useable. It would be good to have a corner of ASR devoted to that aspect of the hobby.
 
OP
mhardy6647

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,213
Likes
24,172
@tmtomh I really like your post :)

One of the more... umm... poignant bits of product literature I ever saw was for Onkyo's A-5 and A-7 amplifiers, ca. 1978. I was very seriously considering the former for purchase at the time. :)



You can hear the specifications.

Not sure if (as my father was wont to say) they were bragging or complaining. :cool:

The A-5 and A-7 were both very nice amplifiers, though. The local (Baltimore, MD) Onkyo dealers were a snotty bunch. Soundscape in Baltimore was a much nicer bunch of people*, sold Yamaha, and Yamaha came out (in the US) with the CA-610II. I think it cost $20 USD more than the A-5, but it also had meters. ;)

Still have the CA-610II. Still like it.



________________
* Soundscape's still around. The other place? Not so much. Draw whatever conclusion you wish. ;)
 

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,349
Likes
12,545
Location
NorCal
So, there's been some back-corridor murmuring about vintage hifi and ASR* and, as sometimes happens, I come to this place, hat in hand, as something of a de facto spokescreature.
I.e., don't kill the messenger, OK? ;)

There's a moderate, persistent interest in hifi of old, even here at ASR. We've had numerous threads and even a couple of "proper" reviews.
As the title says, is there any appetite to gather the vintage chatter into its own subforum**?

Obviously, there are caveats: it's somewhere between risky and pointless to assess an unrestored, decades-old component's performance qualitatively or quantitatively. Conversely, the quality of 'restoration' can vary widely, so making broad conclusions from an "n=1" test of a "restored" component is, at best, risky, too.
Ironically, loudspeakers may hold up the best over long times, but the vintage examples tend to be big and heavy.

That said, I'd be happy to send @amirm a Radio Shack Minimus-7 to take for a spin-o-rama! They're neither large nor heavy! :)
EDIT: 1) heck, he probably has a pair! 2) it would be interesting to compare his data with that posted by the late, redoubtable "Zilch" in his epochal assessment of those ubiquitous little loudspeakers:


Thanks for your attention! Thoughts?

________________________
* https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...0-measurements-from-stereo-review-1979.30130/
** Personally, I am not a big fan of "Balkanization" ;) of subforums, but some, perhaps many, people do like focused locations for specialized topics. I am a "New posts" clicking kind of guy myself, in full disclosure.
For the Minimus-7 look no further
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,579
Likes
38,277
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
I'm more than happy to help in this area. Realistically however, the vintage subforum would need to be wider in scope and have the same breakdowns of sub categories to work- otherwise it will become a mess really fast. With people just posting giant pictures of anything and everything unrelated to the subject at hand.

I've considered suggesting this for several years, but care and thought needs to go into the structure and how to hive off vintage vs modern/current products, how reviews should look (what should be tested and how it's presented) etc. What is considered vintage is a constantly moving line to draw.

Obviously, Audiokarma exists for this and has done since 2002 but the emphasis is very much subjective and discussion based. Throw in objective test results too much and members eyes glaze over. That said, it is an excellent, friendly site.
 

stevenswall

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
1,366
Likes
1,075
Location
Orem, UT
I think see the most value in measuring things that could be state of the art, especially once someone gets out of the budget range of things.

Besides a restored and modified JBL Paragon or something, if it does what I think it does, I don't think it's worth spending spinorama time on.
 

eddantes

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
706
Likes
1,380
I'd love to compare the (already measured) Advents to Dynaco A25s. I'd like to match the myths to reality, not in absolute terms (old crap is old crap), but on a comparrative basis.
 

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,349
Likes
12,545
Location
NorCal
Besides a restored and modified JBL Paragon or something, if it does what I think it does, I don't think it's worth spending spinorama time on.
Agree, in general speakers of old have out classed by newer designs and materials. However something like a Klipshorn or Bose 901 that was revolutionary may be examples of some worthy exceptions
 
OP
mhardy6647

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,213
Likes
24,172
Top Bottom